I would like to lower the intake air, I was looking to install FMIC with the stock turbo (I have seen a lot of the same setup and dyno numbers but there is big unconfirmed argument about Turbo Lag) and since I am not looking for more power I just need to lower the Intake Temp with a simple setup. I am located in very hot country Temp reaches 45C in the summer sometimes and I hate my summer tune. winter tune is prone to knock due to high intake Temp. do you think it will work?
Front Mount Inter Cooler
- Thread starter welaish
- Start date
It'll work, but especially with the factory turbo, I wouldn't suggest it. The factory turbo spools quickly, but doesn't produce enough volume to quickly fill a FMIC and all the boost tubes. A basic rule of thumb is, you can run a TMIC on any turbo up to GT30 sized. Some builds even use a TMIC with a GT35 turbo, though the factory TMIC is replaced with a larger aftermarket unit. A FMIC will definitely increase turbo lag. If you're having knock issues, I'd look more into the tune and fueling than anything else. Also, on very hot days when you are sitting in traffic, try not to get on boost right away. Wait until you are moving down the road and have good air flow to the intercooler and throughout the engine bay before getting into boost. This should help you avoid knock from heat soak.
Look into a larger TMIC. Also consider different fuel types, if they are available to you. I don't know if you have E85 or something similar. Methanol (or water/methanol) injection keeps knock under control as well, though that adds complexity and the possibility of methanol system failure---which if that occurs---will likely destroy the engine.
Maybe talk to @Alin and @HolyCrapItsFast about the TMIC cooling fan mod. You could also do some exhaust wrapping, thermal reflective tape of the IC body, etc. to help control underhood temps.
All in all, I wouldn't go with a FMIC on the factory turbo or anything smaller than a 20g for that matter, but that's just me... If you do chose a FMIC and you have no plans to upgrade the turbo in the future, make sure you don't get a massive FMIC because that will only make the lag worse.
By the way, where are you located that temperatures reach 45*C? I lived in subtropical climates for a number of years while driving the Subie and while I sometimes noticed some insane underhood temperatures, I never ran into issues with knock and that was before my FMIC and methanol system.
Look into a larger TMIC. Also consider different fuel types, if they are available to you. I don't know if you have E85 or something similar. Methanol (or water/methanol) injection keeps knock under control as well, though that adds complexity and the possibility of methanol system failure---which if that occurs---will likely destroy the engine.
Maybe talk to @Alin and @HolyCrapItsFast about the TMIC cooling fan mod. You could also do some exhaust wrapping, thermal reflective tape of the IC body, etc. to help control underhood temps.
All in all, I wouldn't go with a FMIC on the factory turbo or anything smaller than a 20g for that matter, but that's just me... If you do chose a FMIC and you have no plans to upgrade the turbo in the future, make sure you don't get a massive FMIC because that will only make the lag worse.
By the way, where are you located that temperatures reach 45*C? I lived in subtropical climates for a number of years while driving the Subie and while I sometimes noticed some insane underhood temperatures, I never ran into issues with knock and that was before my FMIC and methanol system.
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I have already ETS TMIC. The best fuel here is 98octane. Also all the knocking is at low load between 3k - 4.5k and 0.6-1.2 g/rev. WaterMeth is very complicated setup and tune.
I heard there is FMIC with small piping to overcome and fill the volume. But I dont know which brand did not research it yet.
What is the other options to lower intake Temperature?
I heard there is FMIC with small piping to overcome and fill the volume. But I dont know which brand did not research it yet.
What is the other options to lower intake Temperature?
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
I would explore other forms of heat control first. If none of those methods work then I would use the FMIC as a last resort or better yet, go with an AWIC setup. I can confirm significant turbo lag with an FMIC even with a bigger turbo. Beyond lag, an FMIC also changes the characteristics of the flow through the MAF in that throttle events no longer correspond with the maf and you tend to get a rich dip in fuel as pressure first builds and velocity follows. Because of the extra piping, the timing of when air begins to flow through the MAF is off from when the air enters the engine. To improve this situation you would need to move the MAF to a "Blow Through" setup like what @Batmobile_Engage has done.
Mostly repeating what batmobile already covered but the first thing to look at is controlling the AIT. There are two ways you can do this and each employ one concept... Take in air from outside the engine compartment. You can achieve this by either purchasing a cold air intake or purchase a cold air box for your short ram intake. If you have a stock air box then you are covered and need not do anything.
Next you need to control the heat under the hood to prevent heat soak of the IC. Use a turbo blanket or heat shield to prevent heat from radiating from the turbo. Heat rap your headers and down pipe. Apply reflective tape on the end tanks of the of the IC. Improve air flow through out the engine compartment by using an after market hood with vents in it. I have also seen people adjust there hood hinges so the back of the hood remains up allowing heat to escape out the back as the car moves forward.
If you are resourceful you may employ some unorthodox methods of controlling heat and heat soak issues by using some out of the box thinking like what @Alin did with his setup... http://igotasti.com/vBforum/showthread.php/7141-TMIC-fan-mod-Q-amp-A
Mostly repeating what batmobile already covered but the first thing to look at is controlling the AIT. There are two ways you can do this and each employ one concept... Take in air from outside the engine compartment. You can achieve this by either purchasing a cold air intake or purchase a cold air box for your short ram intake. If you have a stock air box then you are covered and need not do anything.
Next you need to control the heat under the hood to prevent heat soak of the IC. Use a turbo blanket or heat shield to prevent heat from radiating from the turbo. Heat rap your headers and down pipe. Apply reflective tape on the end tanks of the of the IC. Improve air flow through out the engine compartment by using an after market hood with vents in it. I have also seen people adjust there hood hinges so the back of the hood remains up allowing heat to escape out the back as the car moves forward.
If you are resourceful you may employ some unorthodox methods of controlling heat and heat soak issues by using some out of the box thinking like what @Alin did with his setup... http://igotasti.com/vBforum/showthread.php/7141-TMIC-fan-mod-Q-amp-A
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98 Octane! Holy shit, that's awesome! Is that was you use on a daily basis? I run 93 here.
I'm not a tuning guru, but I'd think if you are knocking at lite load between 3-4.5krpms, there's something a little off in the tune.
I'm not a tuning guru, but I'd think if you are knocking at lite load between 3-4.5krpms, there's something a little off in the tune.
Alin
Diehard Car Enthusiast!
Just read what [MENTION=9]HolyCrapItsFast[/MENTION] and [MENTION=662]Batmobile_Engage[/MENTION] have said. :tup:
The turbo blanket will alleviate majority of the heat soak. You can also combine a blanket with a heat shield.
I have the following things done as far as heat management is concerned:
-gold dei heat tape on the sides of the tmic
-heat wrapped 3/4 of my downpipe
-blanket
-intake heatshield with a duct routed to my right foglight housing
-the tmic fans
Your easiest bet is the wrap the tmic in gold dei tape, heat wrap the downpipe, and get a turbo blanket if you are concerned about heat management. Also as [MENTION=662]Batmobile_Engage[/MENTION] has said, make sure you have adequate air flow to your engine bay before you drive the car hard.
As far as knock is concerned, you should get us a driving log. Its most likely the tune. Let me ask you this since it hasnt been asked yet:
What mods do you currently have (if applicable) and who tuned your car (if applicable)?
The turbo blanket will alleviate majority of the heat soak. You can also combine a blanket with a heat shield.
I have the following things done as far as heat management is concerned:
-gold dei heat tape on the sides of the tmic
-heat wrapped 3/4 of my downpipe
-blanket
-intake heatshield with a duct routed to my right foglight housing
-the tmic fans
Your easiest bet is the wrap the tmic in gold dei tape, heat wrap the downpipe, and get a turbo blanket if you are concerned about heat management. Also as [MENTION=662]Batmobile_Engage[/MENTION] has said, make sure you have adequate air flow to your engine bay before you drive the car hard.
As far as knock is concerned, you should get us a driving log. Its most likely the tune. Let me ask you this since it hasnt been asked yet:
What mods do you currently have (if applicable) and who tuned your car (if applicable)?
Yes! I use it for daily basis because its super cheap approx $0.5 per litre.
I am sure it's not the tune but anyway will post a log.
I dont have a turbo blanket nor downpipe wrap. Will do both and check.
Here is the Log. As you can see the WOT Log does not have any knock and it is pretty clean. I get the knock on cruising only, I appreciate any feedback.
WOT:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zn_kRV08vAZjN0Snpsdjh3MUU/view?usp=sharing
Driving:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zn_kRV08vAaGhKQjVnX0RMdDQ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zn_kRV08vAZ0xkNll1a3k2NmM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zn_kRV08vAT205R1A3X2U1U00/view?usp=sharing
WOT:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zn_kRV08vAZjN0Snpsdjh3MUU/view?usp=sharing
Driving:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zn_kRV08vAaGhKQjVnX0RMdDQ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zn_kRV08vAZ0xkNll1a3k2NmM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6zn_kRV08vAT205R1A3X2U1U00/view?usp=sharing
Attachments
^^^^^ [MENTION=9]HolyCrapItsFast[/MENTION] [MENTION=4577]TK-421[/MENTION]
Those look normal. I get the same thing from time to time and Holycrapitsfast said that mine are fine. Also he tuned it and it runs great
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
I agree... Most of is learned so there may not be any knock at all. There is virtually no feed back knock and what is learned is very low magnitude.
Your fine. I would like to see how it looks when the weather get really warm
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
It's normal for the most part. Most cars from the factory knock a little bit. Turbo dynamics is doing exactly what it is supposed to do in your situation so I wouldn't put much weight on the knock you are seeing. If you see any during WOT then do something about it.
If it really bothers you then get an etune. You are entitled to them as a platinum member. We can tweak it out.
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
I would rather you install a full recirc BPV to be honest. PM me when you are ready for an e-tune. The only thing is I require you to have a wide band AFR gauge installed and able to log with. I also require a certain level of maintenance be performed prior to the tune. Please read this thread...
http://igotasti.com/vBforum/showthread.php/3830-E-Tuning-Service-for-Paying-Members
Also this, It explains allot about knock and how to make an effective log...
http://igotasti.com/vBforum/showthread.php/213-Newbies-Guide-to-Logging
mmmm Will install it and make it fully Recirc. I read both the threads before, I wil PM you after next weekend.
