Why you should consider HPDE over AutoX

[Grinder34]

This came from a post I made in another thread, but I thought more of you might be interested. I think HPDE seems a little daunting to some, but I think anyone who's considering an AutoX, should seriously give HPDE (track days) a hard look. I've compiled my top 10 reasons why HPDE is better than AutoX


1) MUCH longer track time (depending on the specific event, you can get ~2hrs a day vs auto-x where you get like...3 minutes TOTAL)

2) You can really get a feel for the car. Rarely at an AutoX do you get do do a long sweeper at 80 mph, or get to row the gears (you usually stay in probably 2nd the whole time, depending on car/track)

3) You dont feel the pressure of trying to win or beat anyone else. Theres no timing and you're just out there to have fun. You dont have everyone's eyes on you when you're on track.

4) You get lots of rides in nice cars. Since theres never any time pressure, usually people dont mind the extra 200 lbs for a passenger, so you can often get rides in some SICK cars. Or an STI with some mods you're interested in seeing how they perform, etc... Or you can just learn the line from a pro.

5) You get an instructor! Nothing like actually learning from someone who knows what they're doing.

6) Much chaper $/min than an autoX, somewhat related to (1). Its really not that expensive, especially given the time on track. I think autox can be like $60 (its been a while). Track days can be as cheap as like $150 for the day, and usually no more than like $275. True, you do use more gas and more tires. But you're actually using the tires in a meaningful way instead of wasting them on the freeway for 30k miles!

7) You can baby your car and still have fun. Somewhat related to (3), you can upshift early, brake early, or only take it at 80% through a corner and just have fun.

8) You actually get time off, instead of having to work corners, run around, and reset cones. That gives you plenty of time to indulge in (4)

9) It gives you a great chance to adjust the suspension (if yours has any adjustable components) and get it setup just how you like it.

10) You can go FAST! Again, this depends on the track, but if you've ever had a hankering to see what 130mph feels like, this is your chance to do it legally (Germans, I hate you).

Did I miss anything?

Lets hear YOUR reasons why you like HPDE, or anything that I may not have considered about AutoX.

 

[zax]

I've done HPDE and LOVED it!

Never touched 130mph though...

The course I took was 2.5 days and we drove Miatas

 

[Alin]

I've done HPDE and LOVED it!

Never touched 130mph though...

The course I took was 2.5 days and we drove Miatas

What was the cost of everything? I know the experience was priceless! :lol:

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

I would love to do some HPDE events or just more track days period. Not to take anything away from a good day at the track, but it can be significantly harder on the vehicle overall than autocross and if you get a little crazy and slide off the track, the chances of totaling your ride are 10x better than eating a bunch of cones in autocross.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LnmD7kxHUw

 

[Alin]

Damn it happens so fast.... Sheesh.... That grass is the cause of the 10x likely?!

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

[MENTION=652]Grinder34[/MENTION] I know you do a bunch of HPDE events and I was wondering if you've found a good brake pad that can handle moderate tracking and is still daily streetable.

 

[Grinder34]

@Grinder34 I know you do a bunch of HPDE events and I was wondering if you've found a good brake pad that can handle moderate tracking and is still daily streetable.

No. Not if you get comfortable and build speed. There is no such thing as double-duty. You may find a pad that will work for the street and for your first two sessions of your first HPDE, while you get comfortable. Well, ok, mileage may vary. Some people are faster than other, but generally you just cant get the best of both worlds.

But changing pads becomes a 15 minute affair once you've done it a few times. Put the track pads on before leaving for the event and you'll bed them in on the way there.


As for going off/spinning/totalling. You almost NEVER see this at an HPDE. I believe the video you linked above was from a TT event. As long as you've approached it in a adult manner and built into your speed, you rarely try to exceed the limits. In fact, the only time I've ever come close to going off was when my brakes overheated and even then i was going with enough margin of safety to stay within the margins. Thats not to say I will never spin, but for the most part you're safe. I'm having fun at my 85% of the limits in dangerous parts, and in the safe parts i occasionally enjoy pushing my car to 101% and getting into a bit of a drift.

 

[Grinder34]

To elaborate, I bought Hawk DTC-30 as they looked on a spec sheet like a true double-duty pad. But they gave you a quick "oh shit" moment on the street and glazed at the track.

 

[zax]

What was the cost of everything? I know the experience was priceless! :lol:

Honestly I don't recall because I was 18 and it was a birthday + Christmas + graduation gift from family and friends. I think it was around $1000 but was over a decade ago. The same course now is around $4-5k!!

If you take your car to a track, be prepared to leave it there.

 

[Grinder34]

If you take your car to a track, be prepared to leave it there.

See, thats what annoys me--the stereotypes about track days. Its no more true for HPDE than it is for AutoX.

 

[Alin]

Why should one be prepared to leave their car at the track? (Very novice on track knowledge as ive never been)

 

[Boogieman98]

I think you should be prepared to leave it there. Not saying it will happen but it could. Things break and go wrong and will most likely happen when pushing the car. Be prepared in case it does. But everyone should do a HPDE and you should not have anything to worry about. As you do more of them and push the car you will find the weak points. I found mine and it was the brakes, which I have since fixed.

 

[zax]

See, thats what annoys me--the stereotypes about track days. Its no more true for HPDE than it is for AutoX.

It is somewhat applicable to Auto-x. However serious damage at 40mph in the middle of a parking lot is unlikely. I'm not saying it can't happen! If you lose control of a car at 100+mph it is unlikely that serious damage will not occur. Insurance will not cover this damage unless you have opted for motorsports coverage.

 

[Grinder34]

Yeah, you're right. There is more risk of serious damage when at a track vs autox. But many tracks are designed with appropriate run-off areas, and spins are just spins into the grass or gravel. There are always few turns where serious damage can occur, but I (and I think most people) take it a bit easier in those corners as a margin of safety since nobody's racing and shaving 1/2 second in that corner is meaningless at an HPDE. At all the events I've been to, there has never been a serious accident among the first two run groups (novice, intermediate, and expert).

And depnding on the auto-x, there can be curbs, light poles, etc... that can mangle a car pretty well. But in defense of auto-x a) you're usually not going as fast and b) courses are designed to minimize the risks of obstacles. But a quick youtube video will reveal that accidents do happen.


Basically, most motorsport-related accidents happen when trying to drive at 10/10ths on all portions of the track, in an attempt to win. In a relaxed enviornment of a HPDE, I think that the subconscious pressure to eke out a little extra performance is negated and people's fear of crashing takes higher precedence. There are many places on tracks where I know I could go faster, but have no desire to do so.

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

Absolutely. There have been a few times that I've wanted to choke the guys that set up the cones. They'd warn everyone and walk the course, highlighting the dangerous places, but many were so unbelievably stupid (like having a gate 4 feet from a concrete wall) that someone should have been choked (especially when people have hit that wall in the past and many get close every time).
You're right, Grinder. There are some very safe and forgiving tracks out there with a lot of grass to slide off into, Gingerman is like that in W. Michigan.

 

[Grinder34]

Oh also: Street tires are safe! Many people, when doing auto-x or actual racing on a circuit, are using race tires. Race tires are GREAT, in that they have phenomenal grip, but they dont have the feedback characteristics of a street tire. Street tires start squealing and sliding, losing grip gracefully. Race tires provide much more grip, but can break away suddenly. I think that may contribute to the higher number of incidents you see with totalled cars at race tracks, or the accidents in "expert" run groups at HPDE.

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

^ :bigtup:

 

[Grinder34]

There are some very safe and forgiving tracks out there with a lot of grass to slide off into, Gingerman is like that in W. Michigan.

Ever dontegrattan? I havent, but the description has me terrified:

Grattan is a 2.2-mile track, with 11 flag stations and 13 or 14 turns (depending on how fast you are going). There is significant elevation change. Every turn is blind, or off-camber, or changes direction abruptly at the exit, or has a significant elevation or camber change in the turn or in the braking area immediately before, or must be taken off the 'normal' line to set up for the following corner.

Or exhibits two of these conditions.

Or more.

Some competitors claim that Grattan was designed by an individual who had a clear understanding of the limits of racing cars and a pathological hatred of racing car drivers.

 

[Alin]

Hm.... Didn't know race comp tires don't squeal..... When I hear my tires squeal, I am prepared to counter anything that might unfold in the upcoming seconds.... Hearing that race tires can break away suddenly is quite shocking... So you need a lot of practice and anticipation/preparation for when the race tires are about to break loose?

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

Damn...I'm gonna have to look up some videos from Grattan now.