Forged pistons and rods or take a chance???

[Stiyle11sedan]

Hey all,

Okay so I have been thinking about this for quite a while now and the more research that I do I am convinced it is time to get some opinions.
I LOVE my Subaru and I will continue to mod her without a doubt, but I am very concerned with the whole ring land issue. Now I know this does
not necessarily apply to all vehicles but please hear me out before closing this page.

I am already at a Cobb stage 2 but I am wanting to actually turn up the boost a little and start trying to make some power without going BOOM.
This is my first Subaru (as I came from the Evo world) and I have heard that they almost have a glass bottom end? Please elaborate on this.
If I have a failure as of now I can still most likely return the car to stock and send it in for warranty work. The problem I am seeing with this is that
more and more people that have the warranty work done have had repeated issues around 25K miles later. FYI my car is a 2011 sedan with just over 10K

I was thinking rather than go through all of the BS that I have seen dealing with SOA that I would just go ahead and purchase a nice set of forged CP
pistons and rods. This way I figure if and when I decide to actually go pretty big power down the road ( 3.0xtr would probably be the biggest I would go)
I am already set up to do so. Now I am not sure about the exact costs for something like this but I know in parts I am around the 1K mark.

Now on to the questions:

1. Do you guys think that this is a smart option rather than just waiting for a failure?

2. If anyone has done this sort of thing what kind of costs am I looking at for everything labor and all??

3. Does anyone think that I could return to stock and get warranty work done if I just keep it the way it is?

4. What else would I need to look into if I decide to go this route...maybe crank for bottom end and springs/retainers/valves??
(I know that is top end stuff just trying to get an idea.)

I understand it will be rather subjective and more up to me...but just curious what you guys would do in the same situation.

Thanks in advance,

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

If you have a good stage two tune I don't think you will have any of these problems. The issues generally come from the poor stock tune. I say ride it out as long as you can with the stock equipment and then when the time comes go ahead and replace it with an after market unit.

When you do decide to replace the block be very clear about your power goals and its intended use as that will dictate how you need to build it. I strongly suggest you take this time to befriend a local machinist and discuss some strategies. The machining is going to be key to a long running and reliable block.

For moderate power you really only need a good "H" beam rod like Manely or Eagle and they go for around $350. Pistons are around $450-500ish and machining should run around $700ish. I recommend you get your self a used block and they can be had for around $300. This way you can build it over time and have it ready when the time comes. Also consider all of the other stuff you will need for the build... Timing belt kit $350, Master Gasket Kit $250, Bearings $120, Fluids, $60 and labor if you will be having someone else do the work. Your looking at around $2600 for the motor if you do it all yourself. Labor may run you anywhere between $1000 or more.

If you are inclined then I definitely recommend you do it all yourself because you can tailor the build to your exacting specifications. IMO pre-built motors never last as long as or are as reliable as the stock block or something you build yourself or can at least dictate to a local shop how you want it built. If you maintain control of the build you can easily guaranty a reliable motor if you have it built intelligently.

When the time comes feels free to consult me on the requirements. I have spent many many months collaborating with my machinist, and specifically with the EJ motor, on methods to properly build and strengthen the block and make it reliable for both daily driver use and track days. I can even turn you on to him to build your engine if you like.

 

[Spamby]

I would say if it aint broke, don't fix it, as for typical stage 2 stuff. As Mr. Crap stated, a good tune will go a long way in motor longevity with our fragile pistons. Going bigger turbo may demand forged pistons. If this your path, might as well get it done when you go for the turbo.
I have also heard some speculation as to the funky, unequal lengths of the manifolds that this causes some cylinders to get very hot and thus go bye bye. Why you see #4 piston as a frequent offender. I am inclined to throw that in with the mix.
I have a coworker with an '09 WRX that drives it like the mafia is after him. Let me reiterate, like Al Capone spraying a Tommy gun at him. This guy gets the asshole driver of the century award. He has had zero issues with his motor in the 60k miles worth of torture. He has been OTS stage 2 since almost the get go. He Has replaced clutches, brakes, and a turbo. This leads me to believe the motors can stand a fair amount of abuse given the ECU is making Mr. Engine happy. He is not the rule but a good arguement that their is longevity in them thar hills.
I have 30k on my STi. Bought it new in '08 and was OTS stage 2 less than a year later. I have had no issues.
Take the internet chatter about blown engines with some salt. A lot of those guys have had legitimate issues, and a lot of others were simply jackasses and can't seem to blame themselves so they blame it on something else.

 

[Stiyle11sedan]

Yeah I keep hearing the same thing pretty much everywhere I look. I will most likely go ahead and just start putting stuff on the side and get a built motor together if and when the need should arise.

I for one do not drive like I am being sprayed with a tommy gun, however I did buy the car so I could do some spirited driving if I chose to do so. After about 1K miles I installed the AP, CAI, and axle back and went stage 1. I really haven't had any issues at all with the car so far and have gotten on it quite a bit...but I have never launched it or done any awd donuts or anything of that nature.

Now that I am going to a stage 2 (really just adding the dp and switching the OTS map) I am curious. Do you think I should drop the money to go get a protune...even without having the 255, injectors, ect...
Also I have a fmic that I would like to put on, but heard unless I upgrade the turbo that it was pretty much pointless and may even cause issues??

Thanks again guys and sorry for being the NEWB!! These cars are definitely not like my old Evo IX (Just bolt on as much power as you can get a good clutch and GO!!)

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Yeah I keep hearing the same thing pretty much everywhere I look. I will most likely go ahead and just start putting stuff on the side and get a built motor together if and when the need should arise.

I for one do not drive like I am being sprayed with a tommy gun, however I did buy the car so I could do some spirited driving if I chose to do so. After about 1K miles I installed the AP, CAI, and axle back and went stage 1. I really haven't had any issues at all with the car so far and have gotten on it quite a bit...but I have never launched it or done any awd donuts or anything of that nature.

Now that I am going to a stage 2 (really just adding the dp and switching the OTS map) I am curious. Do you think I should drop the money to go get a protune...even without having the 255, injectors, ect...
Also I have a fmic that I would like to put on, but heard unless I upgrade the turbo that it was pretty much pointless and may even cause issues??

Thanks again guys and sorry for being the NEWB!! These cars are definitely not like my old Evo IX (Just bolt on as much power as you can get a good clutch and GO!!)

I do highly recommend a protune at stage two. Even though the stage 2 OTS tune is better than stock IMO, it can still use some work. With a protune you guaranty a calibrated tune for your specific car, with your specific fuel and for your specific atmospheric conditions.

You should take advantage of our e-Tuning service and my anal instinct to to achieve a perfect calibration when the time comes.

 

[Stiyle11sedan]

Does the e-tune just download onto my ap? Or is it going to have to be done through tactrix cable and laptop. I like the fact of using the ap because if there ever was an issue I can alway unmarry it and have a better chance at getting warranty work done. Some say this is fraud but paying almost 40K for a car that should stay together and blowing up completely stock I will take my chances.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

For the AP what I ask is that you send it to me so I can download ATR for you car and AP combination and I will send it back to you immediately. That way any MAP I make will load directly to your AP and Car with out having to re-save it first. Other wsie I would have to give you the changes in an excel spreadsheet and you would have to paste them into ATR. To me that represents to much room for error so it is better to just send me the AP.

Alinro already did this and he can tell you the process goes much quicker this way.

 

[Stiyle11sedan]

Nice.....but this won't wipe out the stock map and the others on the ap though right?? I'm sorry for the noob questions, all I have done with the ap is just plug and play with the different stages....and some mild logging to make sure I wasn't knocking.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Nice.....but this won't wipe out the stock map and the others on the ap though right?? I'm sorry for the noob questions, all I have done with the ap is just plug and play with the different stages....and some mild logging to make sure I wasn't knocking.

Correct... it will not effect any of your current maps. It will remain as it is. You can also choose to download your maps from the AP to your computer and save them there.

 

[Stiyle11sedan]

Okay and now 1 final question. I see that you are in NY and I am in WA state, how are you going to be able to tune my map to the climate conditions that I have in WA state?? I do have 93 oct here so that will at least help. I am not sure what your elevation is but I am right at sea level, and the average temperature here is around 45-55 for most of the year.

Please don't think that I am questioning your tuning abilities I have just seen very bad things when cars were not tuned right. I am sure if you have all of the right information that it wouldn't be much of a problem.

 

[Z1107]

I live in the N.Ga mtns which is hot and high conditions compared to what George deals with in upstate NY, he did an awesome job on mine with just a safety tune.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

All I need to do what I have to do is a properly formatted log. From just a few recorded parameters you can get very precise results! :tup:

I do ask some things of you though that will help with the results. I require you install a wide band gauge (AEM preferably) and be able to log with it. It should not be to much of a burden to do that because it is really something you should have anyway. It is as important as an oil gauge.

 

[Grinder34]

He looks at your logs, adjusts your map and sends it to you. All the data is coming from your car.

It's basically just an email back and forth between "dyno pulls" for a particular tuning session if i understand the process correctly.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

I live in the N.Ga mtns which is hot and high conditions compared to what George deals with in upstate NY, he did an awesome job on mine with just a safety tune.

Thank you! We really should have something better on your car than just a base map. :tup:

 

[Stiyle11sedan]

That is too easy....I already have a AEM UEGO as well as a full set of DEFI BF guages w/ controller, just not installed it all came off of my Evo. I don't have the harness though and that may be a bit of a pain in the ass to locate. I have the oil temp sensor but as far as the wideband and boost guage I will have to find some wires first. Also my exhaust setup is only an Invidia catless dp and a Nameless axel back. I guess I will have to get a bung welded into the dp?

Thanks again guys!!

 

[Z1107]

Thank you! We really should have something better on your car than just a base map. :tup:

Sorry George, I only drive my car 50 miles a month, so I decided to park it and treat myself to less stress (marine aquarium). Next purchase is a UEGO.

 

[Spamby]

I think there is sticky regarding what you need to do for an e-tune? Was I drunk when I thought I saw that or am I drunk now?:tard:

Anywho. Get a protune. Skip the OTS maps. I just got protuned and sorely regret not doing this earlier. There is a huge difference between the two and not just the power output. The biggest difference I have noticed is the drive-ability has gotten better. Power holds on longer and the most important part of all IMO that most never mention... the power under the curve you have gained. That's where she's at. Sport mode is plenty and sport# is ohmyfuckingawd <pardonnez mon francais

Just do it! Holycrap will hook you up.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

I think there is sticky regarding what you need to do for an e-tune? Was I drunk when I thought I saw that or am I drunk now?:tard:

Anywho. Get a protune. Skip the OTS maps. I just got protuned and sorely regret not doing this earlier. There is a huge difference between the two and not just the power output. The biggest difference I have noticed is the drive-ability has gotten better. Power holds on longer and the most important part of all IMO that most never mention... the power under the curve you have gained. That's where she's at. Sport mode is plenty and sport# is ohmyfuckingawd <pardonnez mon francais

Just do it! Holycrap will hook you up.

Yes sir you are correct! http://www.igotasti.com/vBforum/showthread.php?3830-E-Tuning-Service-for-Paying-Members

 

[Stiyle11sedan]

Great guys sounds like a plan, once I get home and get my wideband installed I will hit u up George and you can make some magic happen!!