Injectors and everything to do with them.

[Alin]

Injectors:

1) What does the "600 CC" mean exactly? (Is it flow?)
2) Why are there sidefeed and topfeed injectors?
3) Is there a correlation between power output and injector size? (Certain ratio of power to CC?)
4) How does one clean an injector?
5) Can injectors fail to the point it is usless?
6) Why are they expensive? :rofl:
7) What key factors should you examine when deciding on size?
[MENTION=652]Grinder34[/MENTION] [MENTION=1507]Spamby[/MENTION] [MENTION=662]Batmobile_Engage[/MENTION] [MENTION=1]IGOTASTi.COM[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]HolyCrapItsFast[/MENTION] [MENTION=1069]35r[/MENTION] [MENTION=3416]WRB_STi[/MENTION] [MENTION=600]black bandit[/MENTION] [MENTION=3516]zax[/MENTION]

 

[Grinder34]

Injectors:

1) What does the "600 CC" mean exactly? (Is it flow?)
2) Why are there sidefeed and topfeed injectors?
3) Is there a correlation between power output and injector size? (Certain ratio of power to CC?)
4) How does one clean an injector?
5) Can injectors fail to the point it is usless?
6) Why are they expensive? :rofl:
7) What key factors should you examine when deciding on size?
@Grinder34 @Spamby @Batmobile_Engage @IGOTASTi.COM @HolyCrapItsFast @35r @WRB_STi @black bandit @zax

1) "CC" = Cubic Centimeters. I think its CCM, at full flow. Being 4 cycle engine, you dont get that since ~1/4 of the time you're not flowing fuel and you may not be at 100% IDC. But thats what its rated for IIRC.
2) Dunno. Fitting things into small spaces?
3) Yes. There's an ideal air-to-fuel (AFR) ratio. For the sake of explanation to you and others, lets say you want equal parts. If you have a big turbo, inlet, etc... and you can get a metric buttload of air into each cylinder, you'll need exactly one metric buttload of fuel in each cylinder too. So one will always be limiting, unless they're equal. Usually people get a bigger injector than they need and are then limited by the amount of boost they want to run.
4) Dunno.
5) Probably. But probably not often.
6) Cuz they can. And then for good ones, you'll want very even spray patterns, and very balanced between the four...which basically requires a slightly higher standard. But the actual cost of them, to the manufacturer, is probably fairly low.
7) Ultimate power and air-flow goals. Plus the side- and top-feed issue. Fuel type (E85, pump, propane, etc...) will all require different ratios.

 

[Alin]

Ok, that being said, would 750 CC be enough (with TGV deletes and a bigger turbo) to aim somewhere in the neighborhood of ~400 WHP?

I'm not sure if CC is correlating with amount of boost or goal of WHP.

 

[35r]

750cc will get you close. I maxed out my 850cc's at around 450whp on the Mustang Dyno. Ideally you want ID1000's. That will give you more than enough room to play. And if you get greedy you can always bump up to 1300s.

 

[WRB_STi]

Im running FIC 2150s in my evo. Its on pump and e85. The fuel you use will determine what injector size you choose.

E85 tends to burn about 30% more fuel. With that being said, I needed an injector that can flow 30% more fuel at the same HP level. This is why I went to the largest injector they make.

For you needs I would go with 1000cc or maybe larger if you run E85. You dont want to max out your injectors or have a high duty cycle. You will burn up injector drivers.

 

[Alin]

It seems that 1000 CC is too much, isnt it? I dont plan on going e85. Ill just stick to 93. Around what power output do the stock injectors get maxed out? Why wouldnt 200 cc over stock do the trick to attain ~400 whp at whatever boost. (~23? I guess this heavily relies on the turbo)

 

[ZackUSAF82]

I'll add another recommendation for the ID1000s, they are cheap (480 is the average but they can be found for less) and they are relatively easy to tune. As far as E85 goes, I'm running ~22 PSI with the stock turbo and I never hit 80% IDC so unless you're going to be throwing on a monster turbo in the future I think the 1000s will likely be all you'll ever need. I will say that the ID1000s aren't ideal for E85, I'm still battling with my startup and initial warm up period, it still cranks over more than it should (IMO) on a cold start and every once in a while the RPMs jump all over the place before settling in at around 1000-950. They are noisy but you're going to have that with aftermarket injectors regardless of brand, but other than those couple things they are the best injectors on the market for our cars IMO.

 

[Alin]

Ok, did some research. ID1000 are good for around 600whp. No way I'll need that much. I feel that the 850 CC sidefeeds are more than enough for ~400 whp. I found a set for $150, but I'd have to send them in for cleaning and flow tested. I can buy 1200 CC modified remanufactured sidefeeds for $400 shipped. Comes with flow chart.

So..... Options are there for sidfeeds.

Is there a spray pattern difference in sideffed and topfeed?

 

[Spamby]

1000cc on corn and hit 70% IDC.

You want 400 to the wheels? Get 1000cc and give yourself some headroom and room for improvement.

 

[Alin]

No room for improvement! :angry:

i dont want to build anything internally. This car will remain capped at ~400 whp forever! Thats why i think 850 should be more than enough.

 

[Spamby]

400whp on pump gas and what turbo?

 

[ZackUSAF82]

Just don't skimp on the injectors bud...make sure you get whatever your tuner (George?) is comfortable tuning. I had ordered DW850s and then I called IAG and Jorge hates DW injectors and wouldn't tune them (he said they just don't tune properly) so I cancelled the order and ended up getting the ID1000s for cheaper than the 850s were. I'm also not a fan of remanufactured anything but that's just me, others I know have ran reman'd injectors with no issues and I know some that have had them crap out. When an injector craps out, especially at WOT, you'll be doing internals whether you want to or not....just sayin'.

 

[Alin]

Turbo is to remain secret for the time being.
[MENTION=9]HolyCrapItsFast[/MENTION] what injectors doest thou prefer?

 

[WRB_STi]

I'll add another recommendation for the ID1000s, they are cheap (480 is the average but they can be found for less) and they are relatively easy to tune. As far as E85 goes, I'm running ~22 PSI with the stock turbo and I never hit 80% IDC so unless you're going to be throwing on a monster turbo in the future I think the 1000s will likely be all you'll ever need. I will say that the ID1000s aren't ideal for E85, I'm still battling with my startup and initial warm up period, it still cranks over more than it should (IMO) on a cold start and every once in a while the RPMs jump all over the place before settling in at around 1000-950. They are noisy but you're going to have that with aftermarket injectors regardless of brand, but other than those couple things they are the best injectors on the market for our cars IMO.

I have had great results with FIC. I have not ran ID ones so I dont have an input. You will need to do research on the type of injector when using e85. Some are not compatible due to e85 eating up seals and clogging up.

For your cold start, you need to add a little fuel to the starting tables depending on what ECU you are running (im not sure where the parameters would be depending on the ecu). Cars like to run a little richer on cold start ups running e85. My AFR is at 10:1 on cold start and leans out to 14.2 warmed up.

 

[ZackUSAF82]

I hear ya on the adding more fuel, Cleo's tweaked it but it still isn't quite right. I keep trying to get a cold start log/video of the AFR but I swear everytime I log it fires right up and the RPMs never waiver...lol. It's frustrating as crap but I'll eventually capture it and hopefully he can use that data to get things right. Hell at this rate I'll be back on 93 for the winter before then.... :lol:

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

You are daily driving the car so I would select your injector based on that goal. The injector will be operating in lower pulse widths mostly and be high duty cycle only during WOT. If you go to big an injector you risk drivability issues in low speed driving and idle because of the small pulse width.

Since you will never run e85 I feel 850's are more than enough to reach your goal. I would stick with side feeds and I have no problem tuning Deatschwerks

 

[Alin]

Eh, it's not even daily anymore... :rofl:

Sweet though. We will plan on with DW 850 CC then and TGV deletes. That should open it up a bit more.

:tup:

What to do with the stock TGV's and injectors??

 

[Spamby]

I do gave a set of brand new DW 1000's . [MENTION=1172]Alin[/MENTION]

 

[Alin]

We will wait and see what happens now after George reviews the log I just sent him. I swapped injectors 1 and 3 per his request. The roughness on the cylinders definitely have become a lot better than previously. :ty:

 

[Spamby]

I just remembered mine are top feed so they won't work unless you want to convert. But if you do, they are available. [MENTION=1172]Alin[/MENTION]