New(used) STi, Major Maintenance Questions, Weird CEL and well, even datalog fun!
- Thread starter SirMyztiq
- Start date
SirMyztiq
Member
Alright, well I got a good datalog going. I had a problem with the AP. As you guys can see, the numbers downloaded out of whack and no ordered. Some of the values got off to the side and it just looked weird. Something was lost from the transition of CSV to Excel but I think there is enough data for you guys to look at.
I did notice a couple of things:
1.) The car obviously struggles at lower MPH. I was glancing at the Correction every once in a while but it was going crazy at lower MPH.
2.)At highway speeds, it was steady at 8-10 and seldom did it go over 12.
3.) Hitting speed bumps or other rough patches of road caused a sudden spike.
4.) It stayed steady at 25 when at stop lights.
I'm going to try and do another log tomorrow. If you guys know of a way/reason as to why the data transforms the way it does. Please advice.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtK3KbA0DUhLdEdMRGRiVzZDQVhoaVBHekd0WE5wcWc&output=html
Thanks in advance!
Edit: On further reviewing, I did drive more than 15 minutes. It appears to have cut off at a certain point. I get a lot of "empty" values when I hook up the AP to my computer and sometimes I get the same "empty" name on the maps when I hook up the AP. "Unable to retrieve" is the error. I wonder why??? I'm running Windows 7 Professional.
Edit 2: Alright, I deleted some files from the AP and some more datalogs showed up! WTF? One of them doesn't have a .csv on it and it keeps failing to download.
I did notice a couple of things:
1.) The car obviously struggles at lower MPH. I was glancing at the Correction every once in a while but it was going crazy at lower MPH.
2.)At highway speeds, it was steady at 8-10 and seldom did it go over 12.
3.) Hitting speed bumps or other rough patches of road caused a sudden spike.
4.) It stayed steady at 25 when at stop lights.
I'm going to try and do another log tomorrow. If you guys know of a way/reason as to why the data transforms the way it does. Please advice.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtK3KbA0DUhLdEdMRGRiVzZDQVhoaVBHekd0WE5wcWc&output=html
Thanks in advance!
Edit: On further reviewing, I did drive more than 15 minutes. It appears to have cut off at a certain point. I get a lot of "empty" values when I hook up the AP to my computer and sometimes I get the same "empty" name on the maps when I hook up the AP. "Unable to retrieve" is the error. I wonder why??? I'm running Windows 7 Professional.
Edit 2: Alright, I deleted some files from the AP and some more datalogs showed up! WTF? One of them doesn't have a .csv on it and it keeps failing to download.
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HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
That is odd behavior for the AP. Have you updated to the most recent firmware? Also update your AccessPort Manager if you have not done that recently. There should be no conversion for the downloaded files they should simply open up in Excel. As Fuji suggests you should delete all data log files in the AP and start fresh
You need also to select the parameters as previously prescribed.
We want only the following to start with and I would log a little longer than 5 minutes.
A/F correction #1
A/F Learned #1
RPM
Calculated Load
Boost
Maf Voltage
Feedback Knock
Fine Learned Knock
AFR sensor #1
Dynamic Advance Multiplier
Injector Duty Cycle
Throttle Position
Commanded Fuel final
You need also to select the parameters as previously prescribed.
We want only the following to start with and I would log a little longer than 5 minutes.
A/F correction #1
A/F Learned #1
RPM
Calculated Load
Boost
Maf Voltage
Feedback Knock
Fine Learned Knock
AFR sensor #1
Dynamic Advance Multiplier
Injector Duty Cycle
Throttle Position
Commanded Fuel final
SirMyztiq
Member
Guys,
I unmarried the AP and re-installed it to the car. I thought this was supposed to clear the AP to factory settings. I did another log(before I read these posts) and everything seemed to be working fine. I get home and hook it up after I uninstalled and installed the APMANAGER software and the datalogs that were there before were still there. But, I think it fixed itself b/c everything can be erased and downloaded. Very weird stuff going on.
I open them on excel and I seriously feel as if its an issue with the way the CSV file is being read when I open it on excel or when I save it to my hard drive. I looked at the signature profile and the files open up the same weird way even in notepad(Standard troubleshooting for developers hehe) I don't know if its a compatability issue or what but I can't get it to open. It isn't that my car is throwing out wacky numbers, it is just that I can't get them to open up properly formatted. The times skip around and everything seems shifted in some way or another. I'm thinking it reads it as a "delimited" file with "commas" only but it might be also include tabs or periods. Anyways, I wish I could attach the files untouched by my software after transferring to my AP. Any ideas of what it could be?
I can also email them to someone if they want to see if they run into the problem I'm seeing. It is noticeable on the Google Spreadsheet that I posted earlier.
And just a quick update. The car started being a little more telling when idling. It is vibrating more and it happens frequently when idling. Just a fluctuation of RPM. When datalogging, the AF Correction was way higher at lower speeds than highways speeds. At highway it maintained a pace of 8-11 percent. But when stopped at a stop light it would stay steady at 25 and at lower speeds it would hover around 17-25. After I fueled at the gas station, it threw a P0171--System Too Lean Code which it has never thrown. I'm thinking I didn't properly secured the APS CAI after I took it off to clean the MAF so I will check on that tomorrow. I hope that is somewhat more helpful to you guys as I try to figure out what is going on with my datalogs.
Do any of you run Windows 7? If so, is there anything "special" you do to open the .CSV files?
I will do another datalog tomorrow with the information you guys requested. I'll try and install the APMANAGER software on my work computer since it runs on Windows Office 2003. Hopefully that might work.
I unmarried the AP and re-installed it to the car. I thought this was supposed to clear the AP to factory settings. I did another log(before I read these posts) and everything seemed to be working fine. I get home and hook it up after I uninstalled and installed the APMANAGER software and the datalogs that were there before were still there. But, I think it fixed itself b/c everything can be erased and downloaded. Very weird stuff going on.
I open them on excel and I seriously feel as if its an issue with the way the CSV file is being read when I open it on excel or when I save it to my hard drive. I looked at the signature profile and the files open up the same weird way even in notepad(Standard troubleshooting for developers hehe) I don't know if its a compatability issue or what but I can't get it to open. It isn't that my car is throwing out wacky numbers, it is just that I can't get them to open up properly formatted. The times skip around and everything seems shifted in some way or another. I'm thinking it reads it as a "delimited" file with "commas" only but it might be also include tabs or periods. Anyways, I wish I could attach the files untouched by my software after transferring to my AP. Any ideas of what it could be?
I can also email them to someone if they want to see if they run into the problem I'm seeing. It is noticeable on the Google Spreadsheet that I posted earlier.
And just a quick update. The car started being a little more telling when idling. It is vibrating more and it happens frequently when idling. Just a fluctuation of RPM. When datalogging, the AF Correction was way higher at lower speeds than highways speeds. At highway it maintained a pace of 8-11 percent. But when stopped at a stop light it would stay steady at 25 and at lower speeds it would hover around 17-25. After I fueled at the gas station, it threw a P0171--System Too Lean Code which it has never thrown. I'm thinking I didn't properly secured the APS CAI after I took it off to clean the MAF so I will check on that tomorrow. I hope that is somewhat more helpful to you guys as I try to figure out what is going on with my datalogs.
Do any of you run Windows 7? If so, is there anything "special" you do to open the .CSV files?
I will do another datalog tomorrow with the information you guys requested. I'll try and install the APMANAGER software on my work computer since it runs on Windows Office 2003. Hopefully that might work.
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HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
If you want you can email them to me... gvan@netzonexpress.com
Download them directly from the AP and don't open them with anything... just send it to me.
The lean condition, the trims and the way it is running worries me. I would minimize my driving and most certainly I would not be doing any spirited driving what so ever until you get this worked out.
SirMyztiq
Member
Well, I definitely have an issue with my home PC. Somewhere along the lines the files become corrupted when I transfer them to my HD on my home PC. I just installed APMANAGER on my work PC which is also running Windows 7 but Office 2007(at home I'm running 2010) and it worked perfectly. I can see all the maps(no more "unable to retrieve maps) error and the data doesn't get corrupted when I transfer the files. So it is a bug in my system that I will try and figure out when I get home.
With that said, I got a new log this morning with the values you guys wanted to look at. I'm definitely getting worried too. Now that I'm beginning to comprehend what some of these values mean, my car is definitely acting whack right now. Here is the latest log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtK3KbA0DUhLdGpiRlBYTVVNN3hlX21EVUZKd1dDMWc&output=html
I cleared the ECU this morning and that "Systems Too Lean" code didn't show back up at all while driving. The fuel trim levels are still pretty damn scary(and that is just from an unskilled perspective). Here are the other two logs I took over the course of the last four days:
Yesterday's night log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtK3KbA0DUhLdEU1TmJnVU8xVzdMQ0xiSFFGZ2FfQmc&output=html
Yesterday's afternoon log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtK3KbA0DUhLdE13bE1MS18tV0F4ODBQRDBGYVlkN3c&output=html
Anyways, I hope I can get this fixed ASAP. Thanks a million for taking the time to look at my data!
With that said, I got a new log this morning with the values you guys wanted to look at. I'm definitely getting worried too. Now that I'm beginning to comprehend what some of these values mean, my car is definitely acting whack right now. Here is the latest log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtK3KbA0DUhLdGpiRlBYTVVNN3hlX21EVUZKd1dDMWc&output=html
I cleared the ECU this morning and that "Systems Too Lean" code didn't show back up at all while driving. The fuel trim levels are still pretty damn scary(and that is just from an unskilled perspective). Here are the other two logs I took over the course of the last four days:
Yesterday's night log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtK3KbA0DUhLdEU1TmJnVU8xVzdMQ0xiSFFGZ2FfQmc&output=html
Yesterday's afternoon log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtK3KbA0DUhLdE13bE1MS18tV0F4ODBQRDBGYVlkN3c&output=html
Anyways, I hope I can get this fixed ASAP. Thanks a million for taking the time to look at my data!
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SirMyztiq
Member
I managed to get my APMANAGER to work. But I will keep your email for reference.
I'm concerned too. She has been way more grouchy lately. At first the vibration and rough idle was light. It wasn't until after I cleaned the MAF that she started being rougher around the edges. I'm hoping that I didn't secure the intake hard enough which might of aggravated a preexisting leak. But, I've attached the log files on my last post. I'm no expert and have no clue what most of these values mean, but I know these high numbers of correction for A/F cannot be any good. I'm being really tender with her around, shifting at around 2500RPM and trying not to go too hard on the turbo by doing so. No WOT and soft takeoffs. I'll probably work from home the rest of the week to minimize the driving.
Thank you for taking the time, you and all the guys!
SirMyztiq
Member
All Gates Kits are in stock. I have no problem beating those prices.
Sweet, I will keep you in mind when I'm ready to buy! :tard:
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Okay... there is good news and bad news... :tard: The good news is your DAM went from .5 to 1 after a reset and there is little to no knock which all means the engine (oddly enough) is happy. But this is only for closed loop driving and I suspect this will change if you go WOT (open loop).
I am convinced there is a leak... Most likely somewhere before the turbo but not limited to. It could still be after the turbo but to test that you need to go WOT and I am not willing to try that at this point. The only things I can prescribe to you is to A. Do a proper Boost Leak test of the intake system. and/or B. you can try to locate the leak your self either by checking visually or by squirting carb cleaner or starter fluid around while idling and listen for changes in engine speed or light an incense and look for smoke being sucked in.
You might also want to clean the MAF sensor with some electrical contact cleaner while your at it.
I doubt it could be the intake because the fuel trims are so gross but it is still possible.
I hope this is useful to you but if I were you I would not ignore this!
Let us know how you make out. :tup:
I am convinced there is a leak... Most likely somewhere before the turbo but not limited to. It could still be after the turbo but to test that you need to go WOT and I am not willing to try that at this point. The only things I can prescribe to you is to A. Do a proper Boost Leak test of the intake system. and/or B. you can try to locate the leak your self either by checking visually or by squirting carb cleaner or starter fluid around while idling and listen for changes in engine speed or light an incense and look for smoke being sucked in.
You might also want to clean the MAF sensor with some electrical contact cleaner while your at it.
I doubt it could be the intake because the fuel trims are so gross but it is still possible.
I hope this is useful to you but if I were you I would not ignore this!
Let us know how you make out. :tup:
SirMyztiq
Member
Fantastic! I really appreciate your help and time!
I will do these tests ASAP! Quick question: Where exactly do I spray or check for leaks? All the hoses leading to the turbo or around the turbo?
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
That and in between gasket points like where the TGV's meet the heads and where the intake manifold meets the TGV's. Spray every hose you see and even up by the break booster. The one place that is hard to get is the union underneath the intercooler.
It is our pleasure and we are here to help as much as we can.
It is our pleasure and we are here to help as much as we can.
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SirMyztiq
Member
Alright, I just spent the entire day looking for leaks. I sprayed starter fluid everywhere and did the incense trick. I blew smoke into the intake and I thought there was smoke escaping from those tiny hoses connected to the turbo area but when I sprayed starter fluid and did the incense smoke, there was no sign of air being sucked in. On the other side of the engine, the two hoses hooked up next to the plastic tubing where you pour in the oil, I would spray starter fluid around the area and the car would liven up a little. So I checked those hoses and replaced the grips but there was no damage. I tightened all the bolts of nothing but nothing seemed too loose or broke. I sprayed some more starter fluid after I did all that and it kind of gave a little rev but it was hard to tell that apart from the engine's own rough idle. I'm starting to wonder if the starter fluid running down by where the plugs are at did anything to it. I did the incense trick everywhere around that area but no visible sign of smoke being sucked in. My A/F Correction is still at 25. Before I did all the correcting of that area of the engine, I would spray it and the A/F Correction would drop but after I redid everything it shows no change.
So, now that I did all that, I'll probably go through one more time just to make sure. If not, what is the next step? Or, what else do you guys think I can do?
The current error right now is System Too Lean(Bank 1)
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HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
You could try to clean the MAF sensor. Maybe snug the manifold and TGV bolts just to see if they are tight. Spray one more time right at the turbo where the rubber part of the turbo inlet meets the turbo.
Do you have a wideband AFR gauge? That can be used as a diagnostic tool by observing it while you unplug the MAF sensor and the O2 sensor individually. Typically when you do this and one of the sensors are bad you will see your AFR's return to normal and smooth out.
At this point it could be a sensor or it still could be the intake.
Reset the ECU one more time if you could and immediately begin logging when you start it. Let it just sit and idle for about three minutes then bring the rpm's up to about 2500rpm for about 30 seconds. Then post it here again. I just want to confirm repeatability.
I have a cobb intake you can have for the time being. We can rule out the intake right off the bat if you install it. PM me your address and I will ship it out to you ASAP.
Do you have a wideband AFR gauge? That can be used as a diagnostic tool by observing it while you unplug the MAF sensor and the O2 sensor individually. Typically when you do this and one of the sensors are bad you will see your AFR's return to normal and smooth out.
At this point it could be a sensor or it still could be the intake.
Reset the ECU one more time if you could and immediately begin logging when you start it. Let it just sit and idle for about three minutes then bring the rpm's up to about 2500rpm for about 30 seconds. Then post it here again. I just want to confirm repeatability.
I have a cobb intake you can have for the time being. We can rule out the intake right off the bat if you install it. PM me your address and I will ship it out to you ASAP.
SirMyztiq
Member
Where are the TGVs? I have an idea but I'm not familiar with the terminology when it comes to some of these things.
And I don't have a AFR gauge. I'll ask around and try to borrow one or see if Autozone rents those out.
Here is that data log you requested:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtK3KbA0DUhLdElsU2NuRC1XM2lYTFJvUzIwUzB6RHc&output=html
I even recorded a nice video so you can hear/see what I can see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TjzqFaVwOA
As the log says, at startup she runs fine but slowly falls into that bad idle. I noticed that when I revved her up and released the pedal, the RPMs dropped really low, below the middle tick mark and slowly came up. This was also the time when A/F Correction went to 0 but I could hear the engine rev up a bit and it went back up to 25. So, I'm guessing that right there is the key issue. The car is making up for a bad mixture by giving it more gas?(Is that how that works) which is why the idle is rough.
Anyways, I appreciate all of your help. I'll take one more look around for leaks tomorrow. If there are any other places I should be looking for let me know please. If it is a sensor or the MAF, I will probably take her in. I got two-year insurance on her and I know those parts can get pricey and my deductible is 100 bucks. Where are the sensors at anyways?
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HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Naaa... they don't rent them. Plus it is something that you will have to install into the exhaust pipe by welding a bung in place. Regardless it is probably the best gauge you can have for telling you how things are running and is worth the money to buy and install. You can get the AEM UEGO for under $180 and it is probably the best bang for the buck when it comes to AFR gauges. Think about it.
The TGV's are between the heads and the intake manifold. If you follow the intake runner down to the head you will see them. It is also where the injectors go into and the fuel rails are mounted to them. There is one on each side and look like this.
View attachment 1633
The TGV's are between the heads and the intake manifold. If you follow the intake runner down to the head you will see them. It is also where the injectors go into and the fuel rails are mounted to them. There is one on each side and look like this.
View attachment 1633
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Yeah I can't get it to work either...
I think I know what it is. Before I tell you, answer me this... Are you currently using a Cobb off the shelf MAP or is this a pro tuned MAP?
SirMyztiq
Member
I'm running on the Stage II map. I did begin to get these issues after I went Stage II. It started as a Misfire on 1. To a evaporative emissions leak. To a system is running too lean(Bank 1)...it just got significantly worse!
I hope it is the intake! Hopefully the loaner you let me borrow solves the problem. I plan on getting a Protune really soon after I finish all the maintenance work which will be soon. This issue has just taken over my time for the time being. It is weird b/c I didn't have this problem when I ran Stage II on the APS CAI back when I had my other 05 STi about three years ago. It is the 65MM one which many claim can run without a problem. It is the 70MM intake that I know that needs a Protune for sure. Then again, each car is different.
SirMyztiq
Member
You might be right about the bigger intake. The "gas cap" code did prompt me to stop a couple of times to make sure the gas cap was really tight. I just want to make clear that the CELs just kind of went away on their own and got replaced by the others. There really hasn't been a "mix" of codes. Currently the CEL i'm getting is the too lean code.
The misfire code came up once but after a ECU clear it never returned. But I'm about to go out there and check for leaks one more time and I'll check the pulley and flywheel.
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
What the fuck is going on with the forum today... I must have answered this three times today and none of my responses are showing.
Yes it is your intake. The aps is a bigger diameter and your MAF needs to be rescaled as a result. The Cobb intake I am sending you will take care of this issue. There is no sense getting tuned for the APS unless you are going to get a bigger turbo so I would just use the Cobb and go buy their cold air box to compliment it.
Yes it is your intake. The aps is a bigger diameter and your MAF needs to be rescaled as a result. The Cobb intake I am sending you will take care of this issue. There is no sense getting tuned for the APS unless you are going to get a bigger turbo so I would just use the Cobb and go buy their cold air box to compliment it.
