Startup smoke

[Piper86]

Hi all,

I drive my Hawk STI EJ257 about once a month.

I?ve noted that now and then there is a cloud of white smoke on startup but it only lasts for about 3seconds and then nothing. Some times when driven often it does not happen for quite some time and then one day it just happens. The engine is forged with manly pistons.

Is this a normal occurrence for a forge motor.

 

[Alin]

We need more information. What?s the weather like wherever you are? Are you catless?
[MENTION=1]IGOTASTi[/MENTION] [MENTION=662]Batmobile_Engage[/MENTION] [MENTION=2822]Doppelganger[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]HolyCrapItsFast[/MENTION]

 

[Piper86]

Okay, weather is mostly sunny, summer 25-36deg C and winter average 16-24 deg C. Yes its catless, turbo back is a 3? straight pipe with a single back box (HKS Silent Hi-power with mid section removed).

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

I'm not too sure, but I think that is fairly common for a built motor. If I remember correctly, forged pistons are sometimes a bit undersized for the bore to allow for expansion after the engine reaches operating temperature. I would assume that is why you are seeing a bit of smoke for a short period after start up. [MENTION=3416]WRB_STi[/MENTION] could probably expand on that as he is the engine building genius around here.

 

[WRB_STi]

After sitting for a while it would typically be valve seals. Even on a built motor, the rings should seal. Unless they set the ring gaps pretty large I would expect a little blow by and smoke on startup. I know manley uses harder rings and it might take a little heat to get them to seal after sitting but the oil scraper ring shouldnt allow enough oil to see it coming out the tail pipe. Also if its oil, it should be a bluish smoke. Coolant burns white. You can also smell the difference between oil and coolant. Coolant has a sweet burning smell.

If its only on startup and happens after sitting for a while, I wouldnt worry too much about it. Check your oil level every time you go to drive it and after you are done.

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

And there you have it.

:ty:Joe!

 

[Grinder34]

Also if its oil, it should be a bluish smoke. Coolant burns white. You can also smell the difference between oil and coolant. Coolant has a sweet burning smell.

If its only on startup and happens after sitting for a while, I wouldnt worry too much about it. Check your oil level every time you go to drive it and after you are done.

I second that. Pretty easy to see/smell the difference. But if you're not losing gobs of coolant, it's probably fine.

 

[Piper86]

After sitting for a while it would typically be valve seals. Even on a built motor, the rings should seal. Unless they set the ring gaps pretty large I would expect a little blow by and smoke on startup. I know manley uses harder rings and it might take a little heat to get them to seal after sitting but the oil scraper ring shouldnt allow enough oil to see it coming out the tail pipe. Also if its oil, it should be a bluish smoke. Coolant burns white. You can also smell the difference between oil and coolant. Coolant has a sweet burning smell.

If its only on startup and happens after sitting for a while, I wouldnt worry too much about it. Check your oil level every time you go to drive it and after you are done.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions, this makes sense, it?s definitely an oily puff, and it?s exactly that, a puff and its over, sometimes just a large puff. And coolant levels stay consistent.

Thanks all

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

I have a sneaking suspicion your turbo is on its way out. The symptoms sound all to familiar to me

 

[Piper86]

I have a sneaking suspicion your turbo is on its way out. The symptoms sound all to familiar to me

Sho okay, any way of doing some investigation towards this? Should ai remove and get it reconditioned? Still running stock vf43... or maybe ill just sell the ca....

I also noted when the cooldown was not done properly, and also when shes just started and moved out and in the garage and not driven this is prone to happen

 

[Alin]

Whatever you do, don't sell the car! :angry:

 

[Piper86]

Whatever you do, don't sell the car! :angry:

Lol, Alin if I sell this will not be the reason. The car actually runs great. And the smoke is only occasionally and literally only on som startups. Not when running. An usually when she was standing for about 2weeks.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Well you shouldn't really need to adhere to a cool down period with these cars because the turbo is water cooled. That said I still do it anyway. More importantly is the need to properly and sufficiently warm your car. Typically it takes at least 15 minutes before the engine is truly and fully warmed up and oil is at peak operating temperature. It is only then that moisture will properly evaporate out of the oil and not condense back into liquid which causes a number of problem.

Unfortunately to check the turbo, stuff has to come apart.

What oil are you using if you don't mind me asking?

Sho okay, any way of doing some investigation towards this? Should ai remove and get it reconditioned? Still running stock vf43... or maybe ill just sell the ca....

I also noted when the cooldown was not done properly, and also when shes just started and moved out and in the garage and not driven this is prone to happen

 

[Piper86]

Thanks for the added info, yeah I don?t let the car idle for too long however the drive into my estate i do ad idle basically. So thats already a good 3min of idle she gets.

Warmup I?m very big on, no car should be driven hard when cold! I prefer looking at a oil temperature gauge but unfortunately this is a luxury I don?t have on my STI...not yet at least.

Currently I?m using LiquiMoly Fully synthetic 10w60. I have used 5w40 for one sti t when the car was my daily but since its my toy again I changed back.


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[Grinder34]

Thanks for the added info, yeah I don?t let the car idle for too long however the drive into my estate i do ad idle basically. So thats already a good 3min of idle she gets.

Warmup I?m very big on, no car should be driven hard when cold! I prefer looking at a oil temperature gauge but unfortunately this is a luxury I don?t have on my STI...not yet at least.

Currently I?m using LiquiMoly Fully synthetic 10w60. I have used 5w40 for one sti t when the car was my daily but since its my toy again I changed back.


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I use that LiquiMoly in my M5, but I haven't seen many people use it in the subarus. A bit thick, no?

 

[Piper86]

I use that LiquiMoly in my M5, but I haven't seen many people use it in the subarus. A bit thick, no?

Its actually very popular here in SA with the guys who want a premium oil. Only other better oil available I?d say is Motul but thats 5x the price.

Its actually the oil SubaruSA also uses when servicing by them.


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[HolyCrapItsFast]

Its actually very popular here in SA with the guys who want a premium oil. Only other better oil available I?d say is Motul but thats 5x the price.

Its actually the oil SubaruSA also uses when servicing by them.


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I bet you it is the oil you are using. These things are quite finicky when it comes to oil viscosity. I would try using a 5w30 or 5w40 oil just as an experiment. Amsoil or Motul are really the only oils i recommend.

I would give that a try before anything. 60 weight oil is way to thick for the kind of oil clearances we are talking aboutif this is a built engine and even the the most i ever see engine builders recommend in an EJ is 10w40. Is your engine built or is it stock.?

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[Piper86]

I bet you it is the oil you are using. These things are quite finicky when it comes to oil viscosity. I would try using a 5w30 or 5w40 oil just as an experiment. Amsoil or Motul are really the only oils i recommend.

I would give that a try before anything. 60 weight oil is way to thick for the kind of oil clearances we are talking aboutif this is a built engine and even the the most i ever see engine builders recommend in an EJ is 10w40. Is your engine built or is it stock.?

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Engine is built yes, Manley pistons, stock rods and crank and different bearings.

Builder just recommended I use what the previous owner (first owner after built) used which was the 10w60.

I have tried the 5w40, it seamed to be worse and oil consumption seemed more as we.

We don?t have Amsoil available here and motul we can get but is very expensive.

I?ll look for a 5w30 and maybe hive it a shot.

Most cars here are running 10w60 though. Can be the reason lot of them have problems as they don?t spec correctly but yeah. Cant talk for others. Mine has done 50k km since the build and it only the start up smoke that?s a pain, and its only sometimes.

We also have shell and Castrol Edge available.


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[HolyCrapItsFast]

With out knowing the specs I can't really recommend a proper weight oil. If it is built then 10w30 is probably to thin yet i still feel 10w60 is to thick. If you tried 10w40 then I am out of suggestions. This may point to an actual engine issue like rings or turbo seal failure.

What about the blow-by system. Has that been modified? do you have catch cans or an air oil separator or is that largely stock?

 

[Piper86]

Oh yes, Catch can installed and all breather pipes leading into the air intake are blanked off.

I will look for 10w40, I?ve only tried 5w40.

Drove last week and on the weekend and not a single puff of smoke. If it was an issue surely it would be consistent, which it is not.


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