Teach me about oil coolers

[Grinder34]

This will hopefully help someone in the future and me keep track of things...

After today I learned that I can probably remove my stock "oil cooler" as it probably only serves to warm the oil in my case. To do so requires part number 15018AA050. (I think).

For everything thread size is 20 x 1.50mm (I think this is important for sandwich adapters)

Mishimoto is the kit i'd probably go with based on price/performance optimization. There are lots of other good ones like the Process West, but they're MUCH more expensive. The Mishimoto is 19 rows (IIRC) which is probably good. I found a review online where someone said it'd helped significantly with their built motor and bigger turbo. I read somewhere else that at least 25 rows would be necessary for a track car. That being said, a big part is mounting. Horizontal, in the air flow, is much better than vertical. Which lends creedence to Holy's statement that a fan can really help.

But my car will probably be a winter and track only car which means the fans may not be necessary.

For the sandwich adapters, I need to figure out what temperature I want (I'll definitely be going with the thermostatic type) and what brand. There was a Derale one that Holy linked for about $30, and there's a Mishimoto one for something like $140 that look identical in specs. What does the extra !110 get me?!?!

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

This will hopefully help someone in the future and me keep track of things...

After today I learned that I can probably remove my stock "oil cooler" as it probably only serves to warm the oil in my case. To do so requires part number 15018AA050. (I think).

For everything thread size is 20 x 1.50mm (I think this is important for sandwich adapters)

Mishimoto is the kit i'd probably go with based on price/performance optimization. There are lots of other good ones like the Process West, but they're MUCH more expensive. The Mishimoto is 19 rows (IIRC) which is probably good. I found a review online where someone said it'd helped significantly with their built motor and bigger turbo. I read somewhere else that at least 25 rows would be necessary for a track car. That being said, a big part is mounting. Horizontal, in the air flow, is much better than vertical. Which lends creedence to Holy's statement that a fan can really help.

But my car will probably be a winter and track only car which means the fans may not be necessary.

For the sandwich adapters, I need to figure out what temperature I want (I'll definitely be going with the thermostatic type) and what brand. There was a Derale one that Holy linked for about $30, and there's a Mishimoto one for something like $140 that look identical in specs. What does the extra !110 get me?!?!

Better flow and a well engineered thermostatic mechanism. The one from delare only diverts oil through a tiny hole when bypassing the oil cooler and the thermostatic device is nothing more than a temperature sensitive spring that covers the hole when warm. Go with the mishimoto for sure.

 

[Grinder34]

You know how I love having conversations with myself, so here's what I've learned.

Well, obviously, there are lots of different construction types. I haven't done much research on the pros/cons of them, but so far I'm leaning away from tube and fin. From my understanding, tube and fin, is basically a super large "S" or series of "S"es that have fins to dissapate the heat:



Now I've gathered that these may be sub-optimal due to the length the fluid has to flow...but they're often the most affordable.

Anyways, I basically just googled "oil cooler brands" and ended up 370s forum. I think there were some more in-depth discussion that I can't find anymore (too lazy to read ALL the pages again), but they talked about horizontal vs vertical rows for cores. I believe this is for a different construction, but I havent done my research on that yet, remember!

Here's the thread in question:
http://www.the370z.com/ae-performance/11935-ae-performance-oil-cooler-kit.html

Specifically for this example they were NOT running a thermostat anywhere, but it interesting about warm up times and pressure drops. The kit uses a "Series 1" setrab core (vertical rows) vs a common "Series 6" core (horizontal rows).

Now from my reading, this has more to do with construction than how its mounted. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but one can always flip an oil cooler 90 degrees for space/airflow considerations and your "horizontal" core can be more up/down than it is left/right. Right? Seriously wondering, as this will affect my future research.

So moving on, there's also lots of discussion about sizing. All else being equal, you may not want a HUGE oil cooler even if you have space, can afford it, run thermostats, etc... I'm a LITTLE shaky on why, as it seems like a thermostat will keep you from overcooling, but I can kinda wrap my head around it.


Which brings me to thermostats. Themostats pretty much never close entirely. At least most don't? And I think thats much of the reason. If your in -50 degree climate, that little bit of oil trickling through would get VERY cold and might never let the whole system get up to temp. There are also two types, the integrated sandwich plate/thermostat, and an in-line thermostat. Sandwich plate makes sense, its right next to the hot oil and will open when the oil is hot enough. But remote thermostats, I was wondering if hot oil would ever get to them if there's 2 feet of "static" oil that'll only warm slowly through conduction. Turns out, when "closed" they still flow oil but bypass the cooler. When they get hot, they close the bypass and send the oil through the cooler. With space a consideration with our cars (particularly the 08+, from my reading) I think the smaller the sandwich plate the better, and thermostats add extra space. Particularly when we get to the next part:

Factory oil cooler/warmer. It's small, and what the filter screws onto. It serves to balance the temps of the coolant and oil. I'm really on the fence about taking it off. On one hand, on the track I don't want my oil any hotter than it has to be. But the car is becoming an exclusively track AND winter car, so in the winter I don't want to have to wait any longer than i have to for proper oil temps. If I chose to remove the factory cooler/warmer, you can get an OEM subaru adapter (base imprezas) so your filter will still fit. I think you just plug the coolant inlet/outlet, but you might have to run a bypass line. More research needed!

I thought I'd post my preliminary research on the cooler sizes/brands. Theres still more research to be done, brands to be added, etc... and I've tried to limit it to approxmiately the sizes needed. I've been VERY lazy/busy and haven't measured what I think the max height should be (a big cooler will be mostly blocked by the bumper) so i've gather info on a range of sizes. I've also made columns for price, construction type, pressure losses that are pretty incomplete. [MENTION=1]IGOTASTi.COM[/MENTION] how do i attach a .xls?

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

I skimmed through that thread. I think that particular oil cooler is doing a good job because of the shear size of the thing. I'm not really convinced because I feel the manufacturer is a fabricator and not an engineer/physicist, but I don't know that for sure. Though there design was derived from experience on the track, I don't think that is enough to conclude the results. I need to see actual scientific data and side by side comparisons of different types. I need to know the how's and the why's as it were. Regardless it seem a good kit from the other users who have used it.

However; I think my setup out performs theirs based on my experience and their account. My setup reaches operating temps nearly as quick as the stock setup (even with the cheap thermostatic sandwich plate) and maintains temperatures exactly and with no more than a 5 degree delta and under even the hardest of driving conditions and in the hottest days, Plus it is 1/5 the size. It looks like they are still using fans in their kit to supplement the ambient air flow. The only difference is I am using fans to precisely control the temperature. My whole point here is if you give enough air flow through most oil cooler, they will do a sufficient job of cooling the oil.

I do agree that the tube and fin design is probably not the best solution.

Also in hard driving situations the stock oil cooler in your car is probably a desired thing because it is a liquid to liquid heat exchanger which allows a quicker energy transfer from oil to water. This will pre-cool the oil in heavy driving conditions and enhance the second oil cooler further. In normal driving conditions it will pre-heat the oil but if your oil cooler is efficient enough, it will have no problem coping with it. In conclusion you should probably keep the original oil cooler in place.

 

[Grinder34]

View attachment Oil Coolers.xls

Did this work? Also [MENTION=1]IGOTASTi.COM[/MENTION] its very specific. No .xlsx. It might be useful to allow all word/excel/etc files to be uploaded.

 

[IGOTASTi]

We downloaded the chart.

 

[Grinder34]

I should've saved it on the first tab. The 2nd and 3rd tabs are pretty empty/useless at this point!

 

[Grinder34]

So I've done a bit more research and now I'm on the fence about an oil cooler. Let me tell you why, and you tell me your thoughts!

At the track, I always run Amsoil from JJ. So the oil is high quality and, is changed just before/after. I see readings of ~275 IIRC (its been too long since a track day!). But my oil temp is in the galley under the intercooler, and NOT in the oil pan. From what i've been reading, both are valid places toget temp, but most of the time people are quoting temps, its from the pan which can be tens(?) of degrees cooler. So the oil the engine is being fed may be much cooler than my readings. In fact, the readings may be the hottest the oil ever gets, which i believe is within operating limits of a high end oil. However, I've avoided doing a track day during the summer, and I imagine the oil could get 20-30 degrees hotter.

Pros:
Cooler oil (thermostat never lets it get too hot)
Increased oil capacity also helps keep oil cooler
Probably can do summer track days (radiator limited?)
Looks cool/legit because racecar

Cons:
Weight
Complexity
Increased possibility of total failure, losing all oil (burst line)
Extra maintenance items (inspect to prevent above)
Cost (could do lots of stuff with that money instead!)

 

[Hatchhill08]

This might have already been covered, I am looking to do a oil cooler upgrade next summer. I think mishimoto makes a good product and it comes in a kit (sandwich plate style). I also would like to do some Perrin gauges (boost and oil temp) the oil temp is also a sandwich plate adapter to get the sensing line for the gauge. Does anybody know if those two would work together or cause the oil filter to sit too low to fit a skid plate on the under side of the car? Great info in this thread btw.


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[Grinder34]

@Hatchhill08 It will definitely make the oil filter sit lower. And considering i always run the oversize oil filter, I see it being a problem.

I see you're in CT, do you daily your car in the winter? I think I included some info in this thread about deleting the stock "oil cooler." The "oil cooler" is basically a sandwich plate (that's already there) that runs coolant next to the oil to try to equalize the temp. Apparently this can help get the oil to temp faster in cold weather (a good thing!), but also heats the coolant above where it wants to be at the track with hot oil (a bad thing!). So if you're comfortable deleting the OEM oil cooler you can essentially replace that sandwich plate with one of the ones you want to add and be ok.

Other options for you:
In-line thermostat
In-line oil temp

 

[Doppelganger]

Ok im keeping this thread alive since I'm going to ask my question here rather then making a new thread.

So I was looking at my stock oil cooler yesterday and contemplating about re installing it since it's from my old motor and almost **** a kitten when I saw how much they want for a stock oil cooler replacement.

I'm considering getting a derale set up with the electric fan as well as mounting it under the hood scoop since I have a FMIC.

My concerns are about the top mount oil cooler would this cause air pockets in the system or am I just being paranoid?

Also since where I'm located does get snow I'm a bit worried about removing the stock oil cooler since it's technically an oil warmer as well. Do you guys think its necessary to have this stock oil cooler to get the oil uo to the correct but incorrect oil operating temp?

Also is there a good method of cleaning the stock used oil cooler so I can use it as an oil warmer and then use the derale oil cooler to keep oil below coolant temps?

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[Real Auto Dynamics]

The observations I have with the derale is that warm-up is not an issue because of the thermostatic bypass valve in the sandwich plate and that would be true with just about any cooler, but the downside to not maintaining the stock oil cooler is if the fans stop working on the derale, the temps will run away and overheat if there is not enough free flowing air through the cooler.

The derale needs allot of forced air flow but they can be very precisely regulated with the right fan controller. My temperatures are very precisely maintained between 185 and 190 and never go above or below that once the temperature has been reach no matter how hot or severe the conditions.

 

[Doppelganger]

The observations I have with the derale is that warm-up is not an issue because of the thermostatic bypass valve in the sandwich plate and that would be true with just about any cooler, but the downside to not maintaining the stock oil cooler is if the fans stop working on the derale, the temps will run away and overheat if there is not enough free flowing air through the cooler.

The derale needs allot of forced air flow but they can be very precisely regulated with the right fan controller. My temperatures are very precisely maintained between 185 and 190 and never go above or below that once the temperature has been reach no matter how hot or severe the conditions.

I take it it's George in incognito mode.

So would you suggest keeping the stock oil cooler and adding a derale in the future just for safety?

Also is there any good way of ensuring my stock oil cooler is cleaned correctly I don't want any gunk or shavings going in to my new motor? The old motor did have some shavings in the last oil change I did which caused me to park it.



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[Doppelganger]

Another subject I don't know that's worthy of creating a new thread over but is oil related what do you think of acusump systems? For people that don't know what I'm talking about they are pretty much cylinders full of pressurized oil that has a piston that gives you about 20 seconds of emergency oil pressure if you loose oil pressure.

Sorry just curious about your thoughts since this is more of a muscle car and race car thing

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[HolyCrapItsFast]

Yup that's me LOL

Yes I think I recommend keeping the stock oil cooler and then adding a second additional oil cooler when ever you are ready. The sooner the better. The stock oil cooler will be like a back-up should the fans on the Derale fail.

I clean my oil coolers with carb cleaner or brake cleaner. I don't have any special procedure.

And yes... I believe the Accusump is an awesome idea!!!

 

[Doppelganger]

Yup that's me LOL

Yes I think I recommend keeping the stock oil cooler and then adding a second additional oil cooler when ever you are ready. The sooner the better. The stock oil cooler will be like a back-up should the fans on the Derale fail.

I clean my oil coolers with carb cleaner or brake cleaner. I don't have any special procedure.

And yes... I believe the Accusump is an awesome idea!!!

Thanks for taking the time to answer the questions George.

Now do you think there would be any issues with mounting the oil cooler where the top mount intercooler was like air pockets getting in the oil lines or am I just being paranoid?


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[Grinder34]

As you can see I did a lot of research into this and was struggling with some of the same questions. In the end I decided I probably didn't need the oil cooler after all. Do you have an oil temp gauge where you've seen the temps getting too high? Just wondering why you want the oil cooler.

 

[Doppelganger]

As you can see I did a lot of research into this and was struggling with some of the same questions. In the end I decided I probably didn't need the oil cooler after all. Do you have an oil temp gauge where you've seen the temps getting too high? Just wondering why you want the oil cooler.

Original reason was just concerned about metal frags being in old stock oil cooler. I then **** a kitten when I saw how much stock oil coolers were.

So most likely ill be cleaning the stocker with carb cleaner then I will eventually do an oil cooler up front and eventually reserve the top mount location for when I do a turbo upgrade since I really like the ideal of a top mount air filter box if I could figure out how to prevent water from getting invested in to the intake system.

This air intake is a thing of beauty.

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[Grinder34]

That whole engine bay is a thing of beauty. I love the subtlety (except for red/blue/purple): everything is custom/upgraded but it's all just nice and gray. Plus no wires and hoses everywhere.

 

[Batmobile_Engage]

Woooowwwwwwww..... That is beautiful!