The joy of bicycling (from the perspective of a group of car enthusiasts)

[Grinder34]

I agree that more gears in the back is good. But more in the front... Well that depends on the kind of bike, kind of riding, and ability of the rider.

For me personally, having a triple chainring in the front sucks. It is less efficient and those small jumps in gearing are problematic. If I want to reduce my gearing to climb I want to move 2-3 gears max. When sprinting I also don't want to be moving through the front rings and rear gears.

If I'm riding on mainly flat roads I want a 52t front ring with an 11-28 rear (11 speed) cassette. This allows me to use all of my gears with minimal cross chaining and less energy lost to friction.

My bike is setup with a 52/44 in the front and 11-28 in the back and I have yet to encounter a hill I cannot go up. When I first started, yes that happened on 2 different very steep hills but both were on older (heavier) bikes with an 11-25 in the back.

General rule is that weight matters on hills above ~5% grade (greatly depends on the speed you can hold when climbing) but everywhere else, aero is King.

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Yeah, was kinda tailoring that for his bike. But I'd say that for most people the weight of a 3x vs 2x in the front is like going to carbon fiber lug nuts. The weight technically makes a difference, but almost more of a placebo.

Now WHICH gears are in front on that 3x matter a lot, true. If you have the the same two as your 2x, just with an added third, I don't really see the downside...other than a few grams.

Most all road bikes I see now are 2x or even 1x up front. I doubt touring bikes are. I know that I struggle on some 10% (dunno, don't trust Strava!) Grade hills with my daughter in the back. I mean I CAN do it but I drop to around 50 rpm in my lowest gear. I'm sure I could go faster and want to die and show up drenched in sweat. I can't imagine a mountain pass with camping gear! But maybe I am just out of shape for that kind of riding.

 

[Eagleye]

I don't think I mentioned weight, I was speaking to the inefficiencies of a triple vs double. A triple also clusters the gearing so close together I don't really see the point. If you run a double that is geared for the kind of riding you do, the extra middle ring up front does little in my opinion. It was a bigger deal when bikes were 6 or 7 speeds in the back. But now 10, 11, or 12 speeds make the need for a third ring up front pretty much non existent.

But yes, with Alin's bike, it sounds like a triple suits him with 8 speeds in the rear.

 

[Alin]

Phew, alright, let's get some information written down and then go over it. After that, I'll put the theories in practice and find out what works for me. I'll copy and paste over from @Eagleye 's journal.


Frame is Marin Larkspur City/Sport Series 7005 Aluminum frame.

Wheels and Tires

Hubs: Aluminum double-sealed
Tires: Kenda Kwest, 700 x 35c
Spoke Brand: 14g stainless-steel

Components

Brakeset: Linear-pull
Shift Levers: Shimano EF50 EZ-Fire
Pedals: Shimano PD-M540 SPD. (Not OEM.)
Rear Cogs: Shimano HG30, 8-speed: 11-32
Saddle: Selle SMP TRK. (Not OEM.)
Handlebar: Aluminum
Handlebar Stem: Aluminum adjustable


The bicycle weighs 26 pounds.
Teeth on smallest cassette: 12 teeth/sprockets
Teeth on largest cassette: 34 teeth/sprockets

(Wait, what the fuck?! I counted 34 teeth on the largest cassette! That means that these specifications are my exact model bicycle!)

So, my cassette is 11-32T (so, I have 12-34T????) and 8 speeds. I would need to stay in gear 2 up front for the final gear ratio since I don't have any massive downhills near me. As of yesterday, the main combination is 2nd gear up front and 6th gear on the cassette. This is almost equivalent to 3rd front, 5th rear from how I rode up until a couple of days ago. I suppose I need example to truly understand this. Let me describe how I'm riding at the moment.

I start on my bicycle in F:2, R:6 gear (from a stop) slowly until I pick up speed to 18-19 MPH and just stay in that position. How/when/why should I/ do I need to start in a lower cassette gear like 5th and then shift into 6th?

What is the difference exactly between @Eagleye 's 16 lb bicycle and my 26 lb bicycle? What aspects does this 10 lb increase affect? (Is this the same like me losing 10 lb or is it a completely different ballpark?) In what negative ways? (all? :rofl: )

I suppose I'll focus on gear ratios for now and take this baby steps.

I won't lie, I do find this shit pretty interesting, but I also have to work with what I have and improve my own abilities.

Also, can someone link me a proper VIDEO demonstrating correct positioning in terms of seating, leg extension/cycle/revolution, and upper body/handlebars? Don't link me some crazy aerodynamic position. Just show me a casual, relaxed position.

 

[Alin]

I went out three separate times today. Created some new routes around my house. Now, I ride around 5-6 miles and on the parkway road. I can sustain 18 MPH without losing momentum, but not effortlessly yet. It's with some hard output, but it is sustainable. I can sprint to 25 MPH for about half a mile before I'm worn out and revert back down to 18 MPH. Should any wind blow against me, everything goes out the window and I slow down to around 15 MPH with the snap of a finger. :lol:

What's next?! L:2, R:7 is too much for me right now to keep up momentum and just wear myself out. Do I just stick to the 18 MPH (L:2, R:6) parameter for the next couple of weeks to build up stamina and endurance? I'm drenched by the time I get back after these sessions. Tires are inflated to 70-72 PSI and now I will have to check daily (not every ride since I seem to do multiple a day).

 

[Eagleye]

Since your rides are fairly short, but you are looking to improve quickly, I would suggest 1 or 3 options.
(1) Continue doing what you are doing and increase your mileage each week as time allows you to.
(2) Create a Strava account if you haven't already and challenge yourself to some Strava segments (trying to beat your best time and more up the leaderboards).
(3) Or the quickest/hardest way to improve quickly...do intervals. 40/20s are a good start (see below).

Ride for about 5-10mins to warm up (vary effort between 50-70%)
20 secs at 90% of your top speed (sprint).
40 secs of "soft pedaling" (high rpms but very little effort ~10%)
Repeat 8 times or until your sprint cannot be sustained for more than 15 secs. Once you are unable to push through for at least 15secs your body is too tired to gain much from continuing.
5min cooldown on the way home. (high rpm, 25-50% effort)

**This can be built upon to include a second set with a 3-5min rest in between sets or can be turned into the tougher 30/30 workout.


I personally hate doing "workouts" on the bike and will instead challenge myself on a few Strava segments picking a route with 1 or 2 segments in it that I want to put maximum effort into and go all in to get the best time I can. Lately I have just been riding inside, putting my bike on the indoor trainer and racing people through Zwift online. Whatever route you go to improve, more time on the bike will get you there.

 

[Grinder34]

Yeah, for me biking is supposed to be fun. I enjoy trying to beat myself (and others) on Strava segments. But I focus mostly on my own efforts for Strava because who's riding that segment each day, and on what equipment, varies sooo much. Also, some people are clearly riding e-bikes. I saw some dude have 500W sustained for 45 minutes. That's most likely better than a Tour de France pro.

Anyways, have fun, and Strava to race yourself.

 

[Eagleye]

Yeah, for me biking is supposed to be fun. I enjoy trying to beat myself (and others) on Strava segments. But I focus mostly on my own efforts for Strava because who's riding that segment each day, and on what equipment, varies sooo much. Also, some people are clearly riding e-bikes. I saw some dude have 500W sustained for 45 minutes. That's most likely better than a Tour de France pro.

Anyways, have fun, and Strava to race yourself.

There are a lot of people that leave their device recording while in a car that screw up some of the leaderboards. If you flag those rides they typically get removed. I am sure there will be more and more e bikes that end up on the lists as well. There are people that go out in full TT equipment, paceline with a group, get leadouts, or attack segments during freak weather (25mph tailwinds). Given that, the advice to race yourself is spot on. I do enjoy claiming some local KOMs and going back and forth on a couple when someone else comes along and takes the top spot.

 

[Grinder34]

There are a lot of people that leave their device recording while in a car that screw up some of the leaderboards. If you flag those rides they typically get removed. I am sure there will be more and more e bikes that end up on the lists as well. There are people that go out in full TT equipment, paceline with a group, get leadouts, or attack segments during freak weather (25mph tailwinds). Given that, the advice to race yourself is spot on. I do enjoy claiming some local KOMs and going back and forth on a couple when someone else comes along and takes the top spot.

I'm so far from KOM on anything. Just checked my last ride, had a PR...4,383 all-time (5:47 vs 3:46). Checked next PR segment (on a VERY popular segment) ~6,500 of all time (7:42 vs 4:37). So...yeah. I could probably move up a bit if I really tried to hit it on those segments, but so far from KOM it's not even funny.

 

[Eagleye]

I'm so far from KOM on anything. Just checked my last ride, had a PR...4,383 all-time (5:47 vs 3:46). Checked next PR segment (on a VERY popular segment) ~6,500 of all time (7:42 vs 4:37). So...yeah. I could probably move up a bit if I really tried to hit it on those segments, but so far from KOM it's not even funny.

Very different situations though. A busy segment here might have 300 or so riders on the leaderboard. I think my "best" KOM is on a segment that about 320 or so people have attempted.

 

[Alin]

Ended up riding 20 miles today, which is a new record for me. Tomorrow, I should be able to cross the 300 mile mark.

 

[Alin]

Two new PR's for me today:

1) 24 miles, most in a day
2) crossed the 300 mile milestone
@Eagleye , I think I'm experiencing the newbie gains you were talking about. It's been about 1.5 months since I started riding and legs are fucking defined. My quads and calves have never been this big before.

Question! Do you guys stretch your legs either before or after you ride, or even at all?

I feel like I can do a 50 mile day, but it would take a few hours and I'm not sure I want to commit yet. :lol: I think it'd take 4-5 hours cause I'm pretty drained after 24 miles today. My average speed was 14-15 MPH on my way back home, whereas I began and maintained 18 for majority of the ride.

 

[Eagleye]

That's awesome. Glad you are enjoying it and seeing nice results. I've just started pushing myself the past 3 days and am already noticing my fitness coming back. Really happy with my ride/race last night.

I strongly recommend stretching after you ride, every time. You will see your flexibility increase a lot if you commit 5mins to stretch after each ride.
- Seated hamstring stretch (hurdler stretch)
- Seated groin stretch (butterfly stretch)
- Seated hip flexor stretch - seated with legs flat, cross 1 leg 90* across other knee, pull up on crossed leg. Should feel stretch around low glute up through your hip, keep crossed knee stabilized as you pull up.
- Seated lower back stretch - seated with legs flat, cross 1 leg over the other flat leg putting the crossed foot on the ground near opposite knee, turn your body toward the crossed leg, put opposite elbow behind crossed leg (twisting at the waist)
- Kneeling quad stretch (less strain on knees) - in kneeling position sit back and put hands at your heels and push your waist up and out. Looks funny, but works well.

If any of these are confusing, a google search should net you some pictures of the stretches. If not let me know and I can find some.

 

[Grinder34]

So my crank/bottom bracket started creaking fairly suddenly. In reading about creaks, it appears that there are about a million things that can cause them, and fixing most of them require some sort of loosening of the bottom bracket area. Unfortunately there are also about a million types of bottom brackets, and I'm definitely not sure which one I have. Is there anything scary down there that I could damage without realizing it? Or just start loosening every bolt I see, then tighten everything back up?

Also, Tyler, you're a beast on Zwift.

 

[Eagleye]

So my crank/bottom bracket started creaking fairly suddenly. In reading about creaks, it appears that there are about a million things that can cause them, and fixing most of them require some sort of loosening of the bottom bracket area. Unfortunately there are also about a million types of bottom brackets, and I'm definitely not sure which one I have. Is there anything scary down there that I could damage without realizing it? Or just start loosening every bolt I see, then tighten everything back up?

Also, Tyler, you're a beast on Zwift.

haha on Zwift I am mainly doing short races 30-45mins so I can go pretty hard. It is amazing how much more I can push myself in that format as well (I'm very competitive).

Remind me again what bike you bought this time? I can figure out what style BB you have. You should be able to address the creak pretty easily. A lot of times it simply requires loosening and re-torquing to the correct specs. In some cases you need to clean and re-grease.

 

[Grinder34]

haha on Zwift I am mainly doing short races 30-45mins so I can go pretty hard. It is amazing how much more I can push myself in that format as well (I'm very competitive).

Remind me again what bike you bought this time? I can figure out what style BB you have. You should be able to address the creak pretty easily. A lot of times it simply requires loosening and re-torquing to the correct specs. In some cases you need to clean and re-grease.

2018 Diverge Comp E5. There's something on the left side of the crank that says "DO NOT REMOVE" right above an 8MM bolt that say 48-55 NM.

 

[Grinder34]

haha on Zwift I am mainly doing short races 30-45mins so I can go pretty hard. It is amazing how much more I can push myself in that format as well (I'm very competitive).

Yeah, I'm with ya there. On my ride today I was pushing it, I thought. Then I got passed by some guy and my mind immediately went "Aw hell no" so I tailed him then swapped him for the front until my exit. All of this with that bike seat on the back adding tons of drag at the ~24 or so we were doing. Before he passed me I was probably only doing 19-ish. I'm not as good at pushing myself as I am at wanting to kick someone else's butt.

 

[Eagleye]

So I have found that your bike uses a threaded BB which you should be able to remove if needed, but I would personally begin with checking all of the mounting screws. If everything is at the correct torque then I would remove the crank arms and check how clean everything is. Re-grease it and torque to the proper spec. I would be surprised if it is something more than a slightly loose bolt.

While BB creaks can be fairly common, creaks can come from many places and transfer the sound through the frame. I would find it hard to believe that the BB actually needs replaced since it is a 2018.

 

[Grinder34]

So I have found that your bike uses a threaded BB which you should be able to remove if needed, but I would personally begin with checking all of the mounting screws. If everything is at the correct torque then I would remove the crank arms and check how clean everything is. Re-grease it and torque to the proper spec. I would be surprised if it is something more than a slightly loose bolt.

While BB creaks can be fairly common, creaks can come from many places and transfer the sound through the frame. I would find it hard to believe that the BB actually needs replaced since it is a 2018.

Yeah, one of the articles I read said that sometimes things just come loose from the bike shop that forgot to torque something properly. I just dont know what to remove, what to leave, and how to do it.

One of these should be arriving in the mail today: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GYLGU8/
Should let me get some actual torque vs the 4-inch allen keys i've been using!

 

[Eagleye]

I would simply check all of the bolts at the crank arms, seat post, etc (anything attached to the frame). After that, remove the bolt that holds the crank arms into the BB. Clean everything up, re-grease as applicable and torque it back down. Not much to it.

 

[Grinder34]

Finally hit 30 today, level light wind and baby seat. Turns out that's right about where my bike maxes out, no more upshifts...I think I'm fine with that!