GD George's cars (Retired)
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Td_d
Commander In Chief
:rofl:
Makes me think of the Monty Python 'song' - always look on the bright side of life!
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Carbon or cerametalic? The carbon twin disk is in my near future, updated my journal with exciting plans
I'm not actually sure. It looks like ceramic to me but I wouldn't care either way. It's allot better than anything I currently have and it should be good enough for the power goals and launching. I'll get some pictures soon!
The truth!
Regardless I had an awesome time. Even though we didn't get to tuning all that much I still think we both learned some things. The best was just talking shop with Gino, Matt and Edwin and all their friends.
Fuji... I'm working on "George's Master Tuning Guide and Plan" for Subaru, complete with a tuning check list, and I will be sending that to you and Matt soon. I figure it's time to put what's in my head down on paper now anyway.
HolyCrapItsFast
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Tuning Day!
So I had a chance to test and try some tuning methods this past weekend. I wanted to thank 60md for allowing me to tune his car. I had some fun doing it and the ride to Jersey was nice and relaxing. First let me give you some background on the subject vehicle. This is an 04-05 (forgot which one) and it is currently on the stock block. We had previously tuned for a larger APS 70mm CAI but now he upgraded some more to a Dominator 2.5XT turbo, some Deatschwerks 850cc injectors and a Walbro pump. Engine management is AccessPort and ATR.
I was having some issues at first dialing in the injectors and ultimately I came to the conclusion that the injectors were not what was advertised. These injectors came with a data sheet which suggested a latency around 1ms or something at 14v, but it turns out the the stock latency is what they really wanted. That, right off the bat, made me suspect the flow rate and sure enough, they wound up scaling for something closer to 740cc.
:tdown: This cost us two hours of tuning time and an irate customer that purchased 850cc but ended up with 740's.
Anyway, once I knew what I was dealing with I quickly dialed in the injectors and the Closed Loop portion of the tune. We spent a couple hours collecting data and making live adjustments and I was able to get his cruising trims to hover around zero. His idle trims were 2%, worst case scenario. Well within the recommended +/- 6%. Made some adjustments to load compensation and checked all other closed loop tables and transition thresholds and moved on to Open Loop.
Here is where all the magic happened. I suggested he find a deserted road where we could go WOT and not upset anyone. He had a nice back road that look like nothing more than a pass through for an industrial area. So we started out with a rolling 1st gear WOT run to establish AFR. The first run was super rich and it was bogging and there was little power. I made a live adjustment to MAF scale in the WOT region and it made a vast improvement. We kept making adjustments in 1st gear untill we were satisfied with the AFR reading and then we moved on to a rolling 2nd gear and a rolling 3rd gear pull and finally a run through the gears from 1st to 3rd. Each time making adjustments to the maf scale till AFR's were ideal. Then we took it out on the highway and verified 4th and 5th gears and we were finally satisfied.
The results of the fuel tuning alone were very surprising to say the least. At only 12 psi of boost the thing was pulling like it was hit from behind by a freight train. For the final magic I tuned for boost by setting his Waste Gate duty cycle to allow 17 psi of boost and all I could say is Holy ****. This turbo hits hard and fast and I'm actually quite jealous of the results because mine, in its current configuration, is not much better. I attribute much of this success to the AVCS setting. I have found that for larger turbos you should increase advance in the region where the turbo begins to spool and on up to the point it reaches full boost. This formula has worked for me on a number of occasions and this just helps to confirm it.
So after making a few final adjustments to timing to compensate for a little bit of knock at WOT, we ended up with a strong tune and 60md was very happy.
My only concern and observation here is the injectors. For idle and cruise and light acceleration (closed loop), the injectors are scaled and latency adjusted for 740cc injectors. But for the WOT open loop stuff they acted more like 850's. So I'm not 100% sure where I stand with these. I feel I was compensating in MAF scaling for something else that I can't quite put my finger on but I am confident that the tune we ended up with is solid and smooth and safe.
It would be really interesting to know what kind of power he is running now. It felt like my car when it had 387whp. I might even go so far as to say he is pushing 400 judging from the way it felt.
So I had a chance to test and try some tuning methods this past weekend. I wanted to thank 60md for allowing me to tune his car. I had some fun doing it and the ride to Jersey was nice and relaxing. First let me give you some background on the subject vehicle. This is an 04-05 (forgot which one) and it is currently on the stock block. We had previously tuned for a larger APS 70mm CAI but now he upgraded some more to a Dominator 2.5XT turbo, some Deatschwerks 850cc injectors and a Walbro pump. Engine management is AccessPort and ATR.
I was having some issues at first dialing in the injectors and ultimately I came to the conclusion that the injectors were not what was advertised. These injectors came with a data sheet which suggested a latency around 1ms or something at 14v, but it turns out the the stock latency is what they really wanted. That, right off the bat, made me suspect the flow rate and sure enough, they wound up scaling for something closer to 740cc.
:tdown: This cost us two hours of tuning time and an irate customer that purchased 850cc but ended up with 740's.
Anyway, once I knew what I was dealing with I quickly dialed in the injectors and the Closed Loop portion of the tune. We spent a couple hours collecting data and making live adjustments and I was able to get his cruising trims to hover around zero. His idle trims were 2%, worst case scenario. Well within the recommended +/- 6%. Made some adjustments to load compensation and checked all other closed loop tables and transition thresholds and moved on to Open Loop.
Here is where all the magic happened. I suggested he find a deserted road where we could go WOT and not upset anyone. He had a nice back road that look like nothing more than a pass through for an industrial area. So we started out with a rolling 1st gear WOT run to establish AFR. The first run was super rich and it was bogging and there was little power. I made a live adjustment to MAF scale in the WOT region and it made a vast improvement. We kept making adjustments in 1st gear untill we were satisfied with the AFR reading and then we moved on to a rolling 2nd gear and a rolling 3rd gear pull and finally a run through the gears from 1st to 3rd. Each time making adjustments to the maf scale till AFR's were ideal. Then we took it out on the highway and verified 4th and 5th gears and we were finally satisfied.
The results of the fuel tuning alone were very surprising to say the least. At only 12 psi of boost the thing was pulling like it was hit from behind by a freight train. For the final magic I tuned for boost by setting his Waste Gate duty cycle to allow 17 psi of boost and all I could say is Holy ****. This turbo hits hard and fast and I'm actually quite jealous of the results because mine, in its current configuration, is not much better. I attribute much of this success to the AVCS setting. I have found that for larger turbos you should increase advance in the region where the turbo begins to spool and on up to the point it reaches full boost. This formula has worked for me on a number of occasions and this just helps to confirm it.
So after making a few final adjustments to timing to compensate for a little bit of knock at WOT, we ended up with a strong tune and 60md was very happy.
My only concern and observation here is the injectors. For idle and cruise and light acceleration (closed loop), the injectors are scaled and latency adjusted for 740cc injectors. But for the WOT open loop stuff they acted more like 850's. So I'm not 100% sure where I stand with these. I feel I was compensating in MAF scaling for something else that I can't quite put my finger on but I am confident that the tune we ended up with is solid and smooth and safe.
It would be really interesting to know what kind of power he is running now. It felt like my car when it had 387whp. I might even go so far as to say he is pushing 400 judging from the way it felt.
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HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Is he a vendor here?
I usually deal with Five0. Never had an issue with them
I usually deal with Five0. Never had an issue with them
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Oh okay... I will keep him in mind for future endeavors
HolyCrapItsFast
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Thank you TD!
Unfortunately the 04's don't have the exhaust AVCS. :| I wish they did because I probably could have better refined it. I don't have his AVCS specifically because I can't see his maps in my ATR but here is mine and they are similar. I used the same strategy here because of the size and spool characteristics of my turbo. His ended up very similar.
Unfortunately the 04's don't have the exhaust AVCS. :| I wish they did because I probably could have better refined it. I don't have his AVCS specifically because I can't see his maps in my ATR but here is mine and they are similar. I used the same strategy here because of the size and spool characteristics of my turbo. His ended up very similar.
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HolyCrapItsFast
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I updated my post above.
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
To be honest I have never tuned for exhaust AVCS before. I would like to experiment with that someday.
HolyCrapItsFast
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Thanks That would be great! Muahahahaha!
HolyCrapItsFast
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I appreciate the vote of confidence. There are so many conflicting bits of info regarding AVCS I figured I would just come to my own conclusions and formulate my own solutions.
HolyCrapItsFast
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Superb!!!
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