Heat Tape Discussion

[Grinder34]

http://smile.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-Metalized-Acrylic-Adhesive/dp/B003HKRFB2

why not go with that?

1" wide will make it easier to do small places.

other colors: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=cs hyde mylar

 

[Alin]

http://smile.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-Metalized-Acrylic-Adhesive/dp/B003HKRFB2

why not go with that?

1" wide will make it easier to do small places.

other colors: http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=cs hyde mylar

So what repels heat more effectively: that or gold dei?

 

[Grinder34]

unknown.

But that's in the price range of home-depot racing, and probably better. I have no proof of that, but Mylar is definitely a good heat reflector (its what they make those heat blankets from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_blanket

ok, so maybe i was wrong, that's kapton.

http://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=cs hyde kapton

edit: mylar is also used for space blankets. Just wasnt used on Apollo

 

[IGOTASTi]

This is a very interesting topic.

 

[Alin]

So dei or mylar? :lol:

 

[fuji_production]

And until I see some real data suggesting that foil tape does not work or in fact does work, we are all speculating.

Exactly. There are much better ways to effectively reduce IAT's and promote efficiency of the IC. Since there are different strokes for different folks im still not convinced that heat tape works and therefore will deem it ineffective and a waste of money.

 

[Alin]

Question.

What would happen if i wrapped my turbo heat shield??

 

[fuji_production]

Question.

What would happen if i wrapped my turbo heat shield??

not much. buying a turbo blanket will control temps, improve spool, and increase horsepower.

 

[Alin]

not much. buying a turbo blanket will control temps, improve spool, and increase horsepower.

A turbo blanket increases horsepower...?

 

[Grinder34]

Exactly. There are much better ways to effectively reduce IAT's and promote efficiency of the IC. Since there are different strokes for different folks im still not convinced that heat tape works and therefore will deem it ineffective and a waste of money.

Better throw all those other theories out the window too: things like the theory of gravitation and relativity. I'm sorry if im being a bit pissy, but you're not really saying anything besides "I think it wont work, therefore it doesnt" which isnt helpful to anyone. It's like saying "I dont think climate change exists, therefore it doesnt" without presenting any evidence or work to show why you believe that. There's a discussion to be had, but you're not discussing, you're just throwing out assertions.

Anyways, what really bothers me is the last part of your post.

im still not convinced that heat tape works

I'd have been fine if you said just that. But you continued

therefore will deem it ineffective and a waste of money.

If you want to say that you dont think heat tape works, fine. Just do it in a constructive and non-demeaning way. And it would really help if you contributed to *why* you think it doesnt work, so we could discuss it. You may have valid points, you just havent made them known.




As for the actual discussion:

The theory behind heat tape is sound. It involves heat rejection (reflection) from components that will operate better the cooler they are. Will the heat tape provide a *significant* difference? Thats the question to ask. And again, there are corolaries out there that suggest, "yes" (eg the McLaren's heat-reflecting gold foil and the Kaplon used on Apollo).

I'm especially disappointed since you say things like this:

not much. buying a turbo blanket will control temps, improve spool, and increase horsepower.

So you clearly understand the benefits of thermal control. In the case of turbo blanket, the material acts an an insulator, also rejecting heat. Essentially, reflecting rather than absorbing and trasmitting it. So would you then agree that putting turbo-blanket material on the outside (non-fin) parts of an IC that you'd prevent ambient engine heat from reaching the IC, keeping it cooler? I dont see how you could say "no" but if you truely believe it wouldnt, then please share with us so we can all gain a greater perspective.

That's also not a particularly scientific test, i'll agree. But it shows that the heat-tape at least slowed the transfer of heat through the plate. I can think of lots of reasons why I wouldnt bet the farm based on that one test, but its a good indicator that heat tape has beneficial properties. As my own devil's advocate: maybe under a long race session the heat would reach a steady-state that is equal to the non-taped peformance, but under a shorter time frame, it would keep the temps lower (by slowing the rate of temperature increase). That test was also pretty extreme with the flame, of 3000 degrees no less, actually contacting the tape.

 

[Alin]

Wow that video was awesome! :tup:

 

[Alter3go]

good video

 

[fuji_production]

A turbo blanket increases horsepower...?

It sure does.

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_1103_turbocharger_heat_shielding_fact_fiction/

 

[fuji_production]

The theory behind heat tape is sound. It involves heat rejection (reflection) from components that will operate better the cooler they are. Will the heat tape provide a *significant* difference? Thats the question to ask. And again, there are corolaries out there that suggest, "yes" (eg the McLaren's heat-reflecting gold foil and the Kaplon used on Apollo).

So you clearly understand the benefits of thermal control. In the case of turbo blanket, the material acts an an insulator, also rejecting heat. Essentially, reflecting rather than absorbing and trasmitting it. So would you then agree that putting turbo-blanket material on the outside (non-fin) parts of an IC that you'd prevent ambient engine heat from reaching the IC, keeping it cooler? I dont see how you could say "no" but if you truely believe it wouldnt, then please share with us so we can all gain a greater perspective.

Like I already said. so far this thread has just been speculation. I agree with you that the theory is sound and the video does prove some ideas in an extreme manner. but i want to keep the discussion on topic of purely using tape on the intercooler and measuring the results. we can test the theory easily of putting tape on the intake box by just logging iat's with and without tape and seeing the difference but im just not convinced that tape on the intercooler is going to make that big of a difference that will justify the cost of it. Justifying cost is different for different people which is why i say different strokes for different folks. but then again who is going to do the research of measuring temps with and without tape and if they vary that much doing it with the car on the dyno to see if it really makes that much of a difference. All im saying is there are alternate ways of cooling down the intercooler that are proven that should be concentrated on instead of wrapping the thing with tape. I get it some people like the intercooler there or dont have the means of moving it which is understandable. I dont think i was demeaning in what i said i just put a matter of opinion out there. tape on the heat shield is just useless since heat can radiate around it and a blanket is much more effective. but there again its preference and deciding what to do with the cash on hand. im just trying to help people out.

Ill just say differently the same thing i said before. wraps and blankets will keep the heat IN which is what you want to keep the underhood temps down which in theory will decrease the outside temps of the IC. The tape is designed to keep heat OUT but what i predict will happen is act like an insulator on the tanks of the IC that can potentially decrease the cooling properties of the IC. granted its not on the fins where the majority of the heat transfer takes place but who can say how much of a factor heat transfer is on the tanks? THAT is what i am getting at. If we can get some hard data that it works then GREAT! im sure many individuals will benefit from it who have the TMIC or want to keep the TMIC. but until then all im saying is that its not proven and its a waste of money. its a matter of opinion especially when its use is not proven. If its proven and i still say its a waste of money then that is ignorance. so i say again. if we are that worried about under hood temps then ceramic coat is a cheap avenue versus wraps and a turbo blanket has many advantages. keep in mind you still have the hot motor beneath the IC so the best thing to just do is go FMIC and to the before mentioned things to keep the pipes cool.

 

[Grinder34]

Like I already said. so far this thread has just been speculation. I agree with you that the theory is sound and the video does prove some ideas in an extreme manner. but i want to keep the discussion on topic of purely using tape on the intercooler and measuring the results. we can test the theory easily of putting tape on the intake box by just logging iat's with and without tape and seeing the difference but im just not convinced that tape on the intercooler is going to make that big of a difference that will justify the cost of it. Justifying cost is different for different people which is why i say different strokes for different folks. but then again who is going to do the research of measuring temps with and without tape and if they vary that much doing it with the car on the dyno to see if it really makes that much of a difference. All im saying is there are alternate ways of cooling down the intercooler that are proven that should be concentrated on instead of wrapping the thing with tape. I get it some people like the intercooler there or dont have the means of moving it which is understandable. I dont think i was demeaning in what i said i just put a matter of opinion out there. tape on the heat shield is just useless since heat can radiate around it and a blanket is much more effective. but there again its preference and deciding what to do with the cash on hand. im just trying to help people out.

I agree with you there. There are many methods of keeping the IC (intercooler or intake charge) cool. Moving to a FMIC is clearly the best method, but introduces its own problems related to pluming, volumetrics, etc. And you're right, its very hard to test. You'd have to have lots of trials, climate controlled conditions, etc... And really isnt cost effective for anyone including DEI to do to that level of precision. I guess I'm approaching it from the opposite end. My thoughts is that $10 can maybe get me a a few degrees (a few hp, a margin of safety, however you want to look at it). And that's the cheapest I'll get anything like that on this car. I think your approach is equally valid in the "why would i throw $10 in the gutter for something thats toally unproven." So I think we're on the same page there. I guess I've just spent $10 on far stupider things, so in that way it seems like a bargain. (I tend to put small purchases in the terms of smoething like "a chipotle meal with guac", so in that regard i'd rather have some car stuff and eat a hot dog instead. And no tape is ever going to cure the stuck-in-traffic heat soak or anything close.

I also agree that for the most part, doing the heat shield is a losing battle. The heat will just pour around the shield. You'll help a bit in the radiative heat transfer but its problaby washed out by the convective/conductive portion of heat transfer. And theres the added risk of melting the tape's adhesive, have it fall on the turbo itself, and then catch fire. Bad.

 

[Alin]

Thanks for the link! :tup:

Ok so like its been stated already: different strokes for different folks.

I can piss on $10 and im sure all of you if not most can as well. Im looking at turbo blankets for vf39/universal pretty much from what im seeing depending on size. Im seeing different prices. Ranging from $50-$200.... Why is that? Whats the best bang for the buck when comparing turbo blankets, brands, material?

And after this thread has come this far, i dont regret paying $40 or so on dei tape. Imo it looks great whether it helps or doesnt. This thread has made me aware of the heat shield vs. blanket though. Since a frickin heat shield is about $40 or so depending on brand. There are cheaper and more expensive ones.

So show me a few blankets that would help me. For a vf39.

Also what about downpipe wrap. Im seeing fiberglass wrap for that. Whats the difference in the blanket material to the fiberglass wrap for the dp?

 

[Grinder34]

why don't you start New threads for those and We can make a underhood heat sticky.

 

[Spamby]

Thanks for the link! :tup:

Ok so like its been stated already: different strokes for different folks.

I can piss on $10 and im sure all of you if not most can as well. Im looking at turbo blankets for vf39/universal pretty much from what im seeing depending on size. Im seeing different prices. Ranging from $50-$200.... Why is that? Whats the best bang for the buck when comparing turbo blankets, brands, material?

And after this thread has come this far, i dont regret paying $40 or so on dei tape. Imo it looks great whether it helps or doesnt. This thread has made me aware of the heat shield vs. blanket though. Since a frickin heat shield is about $40 or so depending on brand. There are cheaper and more expensive ones.

So show me a few blankets that would help me. For a vf39.

Also what about downpipe wrap. Im seeing fiberglass wrap for that. Whats the difference in the blanket material to the fiberglass wrap for the dp?

Perrin and PTP make turbo blankets. Go with PTP as it's cheaper.
Honestly, I don't like any that I've seen and that's why I am developing my own.
Glass wrap is fine but a blanket will be more user friendly, as in able to remove and reuse and will last longer.
Materials are different. Look back at my thread for wraps and see the materials I listed. Essentially it's what others use..., some at least.

 

[Spamby]

why don't you start New threads for those and We can make a underhood heat sticky.

Whoops... Great idea.

 

[Alin]

Perrin and PTP make turbo blankets. Go with PTP as it's cheaper.
Honestly, I don't like any that I've seen and that's why I am developing my own.
Glass wrap is fine but a blanket will be more user friendly, as in able to remove and reuse and will last longer.
Materials are different. Look back at my thread for wraps and see the materials I listed. Essentially it's what others use..., some at least.

I buy yours! :tup: