Intercooler FAQ

Vermont

New member
Can you mathematically define the difference in time of the turbo lag from a fmic vs a tmic? Minus what i know on that aspect of ic's from a performance point of view there are 0 substantial advantages the tmic has over the fmic.

Moving from a FMIC to a TMIC you will be looking at 500-700rpm of lag on the stock turbo (or stock sized turbos, 20g, dom 1.5 ect.), then add onto that the added throttle delay and the benefits quickly start to disappear. If you are doing drag racing or even road course this will not be so much of an issue as the RPMs tend to stay up there the whole time and your foot is planted on the throttle most of the time. Although on the road course you would have to learn to throttle before you usually would with a TMIC, other wise you will find your self not accelerating out of the turn like you should.

When ever you add more piping you are losing efficiency. You are forcing the turbo to compress more and more area, thus making it work harder, for longer. While this might not be so much of an issue with larger turbos (Dom3, FP black, ect.) with stock sized turbos where people are constantly maxing out the compressor map on the TMIC, moving to a FMIC will not help performance. What you will be doing then is forcing the compressor to work outside of the efficiency range. This means the turbo will be spinning faster, heating up more, and pumping out warm air. Yes the air is compressed down to 25psi but the density of it is crap. Yes the FMIC will cool this charge down so it is not detonating the motor (hopefully that is), the problem is you will have less air mass coming in at that higher PSI then you would at a lower cooler psi, this is why turbo manufacturers spend so much money into developing turbos with the largest compressor maps possible; and also why you don't see people pushing 35 or 40psi on the stock turbo, it's pointless. All you are accomplishing is turning the stock unit into a hair dryer. I wont even go into the damage you will cause to the unit by forcing it to work at that higher psi either but needless to say spinning a turbo up to 200k rpm daily when it was only designed to be used at 120k rpm is not part of the recipe for longevity.

Something else to consider with a FMIC setup is the hood scoop. The scoop sucks in air and creates a low pressure zone. This then is sucked out and under the car. With the hood scoop installed you are dramatically limiting the amount of air flow you push through the front as the front of the engine tunes into a high pressure zone, forcing air away from it, meaning you get less efficiency (not positive about the zones but pretty sure I got it right). So basically if you are thinking of cost wise you need to add in the cost of a hood scoop delete, either a Impreza RS hood or a delete plate. Problem is most people would not even consider the air flow and just toss a FMIC on and call it good with the stock scoop still on and sucking in air.
 

STimedic

New member
FACT.

Also, in one of my previous posts, I mentioned that the TMIC also acts as a secondary intake plenum due to the small size of the intake manifold plenum. Research it.
 
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Batmobile_Engage

Squirrel Meat Aficionado.
Staff member
Moving from a FMIC to a TMIC you will be looking at 500-700rpm of lag on the stock turbo (or stock sized turbos, 20g, dom 1.5 ect.), then add onto that the added throttle delay and the benefits quickly start to disappear. If you are doing drag racing or even road course this will not be so much of an issue as the RPMs tend to stay up there the whole time and your foot is planted on the throttle most of the time. Although on the road course you would have to learn to throttle before you usually would with a TMIC, other wise you will find your self not accelerating out of the turn like you should.

When ever you add more piping you are losing efficiency. You are forcing the turbo to compress more and more area, thus making it work harder, for longer. While this might not be so much of an issue with larger turbos (Dom3, FP black, ect.) with stock sized turbos where people are constantly maxing out the compressor map on the TMIC, moving to a FMIC will not help performance. What you will be doing then is forcing the compressor to work outside of the efficiency range. This means the turbo will be spinning faster, heating up more, and pumping out warm air. Yes the air is compressed down to 25psi but the density of it is crap. Yes the FMIC will cool this charge down so it is not detonating the motor (hopefully that is), the problem is you will have less air mass coming in at that higher PSI then you would at a lower cooler psi, this is why turbo manufacturers spend so much money into developing turbos with the largest compressor maps possible; and also why you don't see people pushing 35 or 40psi on the stock turbo, it's pointless. All you are accomplishing is turning the stock unit into a hair dryer. I wont even go into the damage you will cause to the unit by forcing it to work at that higher psi either but needless to say spinning a turbo up to 200k rpm daily when it was only designed to be used at 120k rpm is not part of the recipe for longevity.

Something else to consider with a FMIC setup is the hood scoop. The scoop sucks in air and creates a low pressure zone. This then is sucked out and under the car. With the hood scoop installed you are dramatically limiting the amount of air flow you push through the front as the front of the engine tunes into a high pressure zone, forcing air away from it, meaning you get less efficiency (not positive about the zones but pretty sure I got it right). So basically if you are thinking of cost wise you need to add in the cost of a hood scoop delete, either a Impreza RS hood or a delete plate. Problem is most people would not even consider the air flow and just toss a FMIC on and call it good with the stock scoop still on and sucking in air.

I think you are spot on with this assessment of the scoop/no-scoop + FMIC idea. I was wondering though, I replaced my scoop with a vent when I went FMIC.
I 'believe' it helps evacuate hot air from under the hood, but I suppose I'll never know for sure unless I had some kind of wind tunnel data to look at. So basically, I'm wondering...do you think the vent is effective, and regardless of whether yes or no, do you think having an RS hood for example would be better than a vent, regarding airflow in the engine bay?
http://www.igotasti.com/vBforum/show...Member-Journal
(third post in my journal has a pic of my hood with the vent installed)
 

Batmobile_Engage

Squirrel Meat Aficionado.
Staff member
I'm not toooo concerned about drag, as it seems from the wind tunnel data I've seen, the '04/05 STi is about
as aerodynamic as a brick in the wind. It's probably not easy to see from the pics, but the shape of the vent
'should' create a low pressure zone above the vent, sucking air out from under the hood. Oh well, I think it
looks sick straight on.....i.e. when you look in your rear view and I'm right behind. Aero and engine bay airflow
has really interested me lately.
 

finallymysti

New member
I've been getting into aero aswell. the vent definetley should work. but like I said, and you must agree, there are more efficient designs as far as I see in the picture. but again, like you said you like the way it looks and don't care about the drag, so I wouldn't change a thing
 

HolyCrapItsFast

Drinks beer!
Gearing is something that most people don't even consider... something that I admittedly am guilty of.

So how would you factor in elevation here? Because elevation also effects, drastically, the way the turbo tappers and limits you as to how much boost you can run. The higher in elevation you go the faster the compressor has to spin to achieve the same boost. Which makes your statement on balancing even more critical. This is where the efficiency maps come into play. Turbo and intercooler efficiency is usually where I choose to start though when considering my power goal and match everything else to suit. Boost, cam, head work, fuel and so on :tup:.
 

finallymysti

New member
so. for a hpde/tt car, running a stock turbo or 1.5 dom. what is your opinion. because you can spend about 300-500 dollars to help heat in the engine but you are sort of just fixing a design flaw/limitation. or about 800-1000 dollars making a proper not oversized fmic setup. which will still have a design flaw because the turbos sort of in the wrong place.
 
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