HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
I never noticed that but your right. It never effected me because I just never reach that part of the MAF.
TD_D mod journey. From stock to the 'bastardmobile'
- Thread starter Td_d
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Td_d
Commander In Chief
Yeah - I could not get it down, and reaching 11.8 to 11.9 is not a good thing... I've posted my finding on the thread where the tool is posted.
I'm pretty amped about the numbers I'm getting though, I'm consistently hitting between 420 to 430 whp (SAE corrected). She's running violently...
I'm pretty amped about the numbers I'm getting though, I'm consistently hitting between 420 to 430 whp (SAE corrected). She's running violently...
Td_d
Commander In Chief
Success! AFRs holding at targeted fueling till past 7200RPMs, no problem. Still need a couple more runs to dial in the errors under 1%, If that's possible. I added another row to the timing tables to give it resolution at the top, and in doing so dropped the numbers a little to make it smooth out. It's hurt power a little - at around 400 - and it was not knocking before (with the timing inherited from the lower cell), so I think I can tweak it up a little. What I'm really impressed with is how well the Dom3 XTR holds the power till the end - I was concerned about a slight drop at the end - but from all the various power bragging dynos I've seen, I'm holding out power much better than most. And perceived engine load now not going over 3.68, beautiful...
I'll do a couple of runs tonight if possible, and post up some road dynos.
So, yeah... I think with these tweaks that's all I can do at the moment. I can definitely get more with bigger injectors, because as we all know 420/ 430 whp is just not enough for a daily driver :tard: Good thing is I know that the motor can take abuse, not running it at the edge (or anywhere near it for that matter). As Fuji says, rather overengineer it for the safety margin.
I'll do a couple of runs tonight if possible, and post up some road dynos.
So, yeah... I think with these tweaks that's all I can do at the moment. I can definitely get more with bigger injectors, because as we all know 420/ 430 whp is just not enough for a daily driver :tard: Good thing is I know that the motor can take abuse, not running it at the edge (or anywhere near it for that matter). As Fuji says, rather overengineer it for the safety margin.
Td_d
Commander In Chief
Yeah - this is different smoothing to the previous dynos - with it tracking smoother now, I could drop the smoothing down to 3. I would expect the AFRs to be more concave, agreed - also - I was going to ask - at what RPMs do you generally drop the AFR to target? From what I've seen, lower? The earlier AFRs (3000 thereabouts) are high due to the stumble that's crept in again with the scale being shifted - still need to revise load comps again.
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Are you really reaching 36psi of boost or is that absolute?
I think I agree with Fugi. Something is not quite right. If you are reaching 36psi then you should be time warping past 500whp on a Dominator 3. Also both the spooling and power curves look to gradual for a Dom 3.
I think I agree with Fugi. Something is not quite right. If you are reaching 36psi then you should be time warping past 500whp on a Dominator 3. Also both the spooling and power curves look to gradual for a Dom 3.
Ok - here's a dyno sheet - tracking beautifully now, hit 414whp and tracking right down to target AFR. IDC's are freaking me out...
Td_d
Commander In Chief
Absolute - definitely not relative! I was wondering why peak boost is only kicking in past 5000RPMs - but the gradual fueling increase would explain it (I used the tuner's original maps, but with a lower target AFR and smoothing). His maps taper off very gently into target - why on earth would he do that if it results in later boost?.
I think I should probably be dropping rich at around 3800 in the last three / four columns at around 3400 / 3800.
I think I should probably be dropping rich at around 3800 in the last three / four columns at around 3400 / 3800.
Td_d
Commander In Chief
Oh for Pete's sakes... plugging in my WOT run data into airboy's log file interpolation spreadsheet (awesome tool) fueling tabs reveals exactly why it's doing what it's doing... because the fueling tables are telling it to. What a fucking mess - completely convex as it goes up the load scale... I should have just done it from scratch in the first place.
I've smoothed it out and tracked the WOT runs I have versus the fueling table, so the interpolated result now looks like this:
Eugh... I'll have to rescale the MAF again after this.
I've smoothed it out and tracked the WOT runs I have versus the fueling table, so the interpolated result now looks like this:
Eugh... I'll have to rescale the MAF again after this.
Td_d
Commander In Chief
Ok, did some runs, and predictably the MAF scale is now off, so rescaling, but the general shape is now following the maps - concave. Feels like the turbo is spooling earlier, but can only confirm once I have cleaner data with the new MAF scale.
Holy - if I reduce the timing right at the top, will that bring the IDCs down some? Or will I need to reduce boost (which is a much bigger hassle, given that it's an EBC). I'm worried about IDCs at the top (the only saving grace is that we are having a serious cold snap, so this is probably about as extreme as it will get - which is likely why my IDCs are a good 10-12% higher.
Holy - if I reduce the timing right at the top, will that bring the IDCs down some? Or will I need to reduce boost (which is a much bigger hassle, given that it's an EBC). I'm worried about IDCs at the top (the only saving grace is that we are having a serious cold snap, so this is probably about as extreme as it will get - which is likely why my IDCs are a good 10-12% higher.
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
Timing has little effect on IDC if any at all. The boost is what you want to adjust. The only real way to fix that is to put the bigger injectors in.
Also though your power curve is drastically effected by the fueling table, the boost curve is less effected and though the fueling tables will effect that curve it shouldn't impact when the turbo spools as much as you would think.
I feel the onset of boost is related more to the EBC than it is your tune at this point. I am not familiar with it at all so I can't really give you any further advice in regards to that.
I am a big proponent of the factory boost control system in our cars. Believe it or not it is one of the most advanced systems in the world. That is evident when you actually look at all the parameters that are related to Turbo Dynamics as a whole. Very few if any EBC's have as much...
Also though your power curve is drastically effected by the fueling table, the boost curve is less effected and though the fueling tables will effect that curve it shouldn't impact when the turbo spools as much as you would think.
I feel the onset of boost is related more to the EBC than it is your tune at this point. I am not familiar with it at all so I can't really give you any further advice in regards to that.
I am a big proponent of the factory boost control system in our cars. Believe it or not it is one of the most advanced systems in the world. That is evident when you actually look at all the parameters that are related to Turbo Dynamics as a whole. Very few if any EBC's have as much...
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Td_d
Commander In Chief
THe EBC is an HKS EBC, so I guess I should do some reading up on how to programme it. Stupidly, I thought that at least the basics of the tune that was put in place would at least be solid, like the fueling tables, boost settings and timing - but frankly, every new variable I go into is proving to be yet another sloppy job - I'm so irritated...
I guess I'll need to tone the boost down a little - it's really at the end of the injectors ability now at 1.55 bar...
I guess I'll need to tone the boost down a little - it's really at the end of the injectors ability now at 1.55 bar...
Td_d
Commander In Chief
Hmm.. I see - spool is building up much, much quicker. I'm hitting positive relative manifold pressure at about 2800, so I'll revise the fueling maps to go richer even earlier, lower that target AFR as well. I need to do some reading about the boost controller now - occam razor tells me that rather than a mechanical fault, it was poorly setup, like pretty much all else on this tune...
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
I think the Map AFR (I'm guessing that's the commanded or target fuel) is good but the Innovate dose not track it smoothly. That needs work IMO
Oh for Pete's sakes... plugging in my WOT run data into airboy's log file interpolation spreadsheet (awesome tool) fueling tabs reveals exactly why it's doing what it's doing... because the fueling tables are telling it to. What a fucking mess - completely convex as it goes up the load scale... I should have just done it from scratch in the first place.
I've smoothed it out and tracked the WOT runs I have versus the fueling table, so the interpolated result now looks like this:
Eugh... I'll have to rescale the MAF again after this.
HolyCrapItsFast
Drinks beer!
It really depends what his target was at the time and if you think about it the AFR's are tracking what his turbo is doing. I wouldn't really know unless I can compare actual with commanded. If his turbo doesn't make the load the AFR's will not become appropriately rich.
And use the word "onset". Your confusing me with "tip in" damn it :lol:
Td_d
Commander In Chief
I think I have an idea as to why it's taking so long to build up target boost after scanning briefly through the literature. I always wondered about this since the EVC was installed, and now I think my gut feel was right. One of the key aspects of tuning the EVC is to ensure that the so-called 'off-set' is adjusted so that programmed boost matches peak held boost (1.55bar in my case). My high boost programme is set to ... 1.4bar. So rather than properly setting the off-set, the target boost was just set lower - which in my mind would cause the spooling ramp up to be incorrect.
Sound like a plausible theory?
Sound like a plausible theory?
