TD_D mod journey. From stock to the 'bastardmobile'

[Td_d]

Back in town!

Car's driving very nicely... I've also been tweaking the drive by wire tables to reduce the twitchiness at partial throttle. Must say I've always struggled to get my head around how the tables on the 08's up worked (3 tables as opposed to 2, and non-linear), but after much reading and some asking, I'm beginning to get it. You can do a lot to make driveability better using these tables. Combine that with some wastegate duty tables, and you can get throttle at 100% by 60% pedal, and then use the remaining 40% to basically 'request' boost. Interesting technique (but since I'm using an EBCS, the boost bit is not as relevant to me).

There really is some amazing work being done in the opensource space at the moment.

 

[Td_d]

No prob Fuji - you just want the stock rom with the patch so you can copy the maps into it? Otherwise, just send me the roms themselves, and I'll patch it for you, send back. For the '10 are we talking your SE (for which I have ported) or a straight '10 (which if it is different to the 08) I have not patched (might be the same rom as the '08 though).

 

[Td_d]

Ok, I checked through the 2010 Rom Az1G701I, it's identical to the SE rom, so the same patch can be used on it (the only thing that would need to be changed is in patch.dif - change AZ1G702I to AZ1G701I).

If you want me to just patch your roms for you, PM me with the files, I'll patch and send back to you.

 

[Td_d]

The question is:
Does the file you patch need to have stock MAF calibration?

No - it can actually be any (correct) Rom, with the maps as changed as you want them from stock - it only modifies areas of the code, and checks whether it's finding the hexdecimal it expects, and then patches it. That's why I figure, send me the roms you want patched, I can just patch them for you and send back. Then you won't have to copy any maps.

You will of course then have to tune the VE map pretty much from scratch - but if your current MAF is well dialed in, you can tune it with the rom patched, but SD disabled, and compared MAF airflow to SD airflow, and match them up until the VE maps are correct.

 

[Td_d]

Great stuff!

 

[Td_d]

So with my injectors scaled exactly at 1200cc, and with the limit removed off the engine load table, was curious to see what kind of peak engine load I was hitting, since the figures are now not fudged... chuckle.

The best I got so far (I think it was 4th, and no, it was not very responsible) was 4.6. Fwark...

 

[Td_d]

Yeah - waiting for a new meth kit since my old one crapped out, then I need to find a nice straight stretch and do it properly - I'm also keen to see where I'm at (running 1.9bar now).

 

[Td_d]

Still waiting on the new meth kit, but managed to get the old one working again, happened to be loose wiring :tard:

Have to reset the settings, quick question - at what point do you want maximum flow? It's a simple system - I've got two variables to play with threshhold (starting PSI), which I've set to 7~8 PSI, and gain, which basically ramps up the spray. How quickly should I ramp it up - at what point should I have full flow - peak boost?

 

[Td_d]

Looks like I wasn't injecting enough before, now that I'm hitting full flow and sustaining it into the higher load higher RPM areas, the engine is loving it. Zero knock, just under 27psi.

4.64 engine load, 3rd gear

And I still need to clean up the MAF scaling a little up at the top, too rich (I'm targeting 11.47, hitting 10.9). Because I'm hitting the second last MAF scale cell, it's too rich - 4.86v on an 80mm MAF housing

Now it's finally time to go SD, methinks.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Looks like I wasn't injecting enough before, now that I'm hitting full flow and sustaining it into the higher load higher RPM areas, the engine is loving it. Zero knock, just under 27psi.

4.64 engine load, 3rd gear

And I still need to clean up the MAF scaling a little up at the top, too rich (I'm targeting 11.47, hitting 10.9). Because I'm hitting the second last MAF scale cell, it's too rich - 4.86v on an 80mm MAF housing

Now it's finally time to go SD, methinks.

You should do a run in virtual dyno... I'm curious

 

[Td_d]

Yeah - me too! Got to find a properly straight road to get legit figures though... I haven't been able to go full wot for over a week since the meth crapped out, it was real fun doing a run this evening. Lost traction in both 2nd and 3rd on a full WOT pull

 

[Td_d]

Did a couple of WOT runs tonight to try and road dyno it - just not controlled enough. I'm getting anywhere between mid 400's to late 300's whp. I figure I'm probably about 420 / 430 legimitately. That seems to be the cap for my current setup, so if I want more, I figure it's time for cams and probably bigger turbo. The block can certainly handle it. I could probably push timing a little more at the top end (I'm fairly conservative at total timing of around 11-12* at peak loads), but I'm a bigger fan of higher boost / lower timing. And 2 bar is pretty much the limit, even with meth, for the Dom3XTR I figure - that's as much as the map will allow efficiency wise. I'm also at real high altitude, so that doesn't help the efficiency boundary.

Damn irritating - on the 5th run, wanted to see how much I could load it up in 4th - half way up a hill - PPPPSSSSHHHH! Damn Y pipe coupler came off. Again. Fucking worm clamps, yes I know, I know, I need t-clamps. This time I couldn't even limp home, it went so stupidly rich, it just cut out on an uphill. So I thought, how to deal with this... hmmm.... switch to "SD" Zapped the MAF sensor off, and took a slow ride home. Now I'm full of grease, and a working car again.

 

[Td_d]

You may be going past that TMIC range TBH... and I'm surprised to low of HP with meth in there too...

I really need to do a proper dyno, or find a seriously straight road, something like a runway. I also think that I should be hitting mid 400's with meth / water, but you may be right, could be the limit of the TMIC. If that's the case, the next step will have to be FMIC or AWIC - this TMIC is already so large that it just barely fits, I've had to use spacers to make sure it's not touching various components. I think bigger cams would also help quite a bit with the top end - not that I'm really falling off that much TBH. Maybe my timing is a little too conservative...

 

[Td_d]

Thanks Fuji - I'll send you my rom and my definitions for Ecuflash - I think that's going to be the easiest. It's been through so many iterations, it will be good to have a fresh pair of eyes looks at it. Also, I've had incessant knock problems down low (which frankly I'm not sure is real, but I don't have Det cans), so I may have dropped timing quite a bit over time - might be good idea to look at it from scratch.

 

[Td_d]

So I took the plunge - SD rom is on, and nothing blew up

Still in disabled mode, gathering data to pull the VE table together. Will post updates!

 

[Td_d]

T-clamped the turbo / intercooler y pipe (the sucker that keeps on popping off) and the throttle body. A whole lot tighter, I don't see this coming off any time soon!

What you neglected to mentioned Fuji is the potential ball-ache that the additional metal brings to fitment My TMIC barely fitted in there as is... made for an interesting evening of trying to put the sucker back in!

All I can say is, I think it was probably leaking already before it popped off - I got to 1.86 bar very easily on a very quick run this evening - so it's obviously holding nice and tight.

Trying to get my head around the SD numbers, Merp's put up his spreadsheet, so I'll see if I can use it to get a base line. My O2 sensor is definitely fried - ran open loop this afternoon, fueling was much more predictable. Now why would my O2 sensor be fried after 40,000 odd kms - hmm, maybe the ridiculous amounts of chemicals thrown at the poor thing?

Also - to all the doubters - I've found the transient fueling tables for my Rom, and test drove disabling them under high load. Previously - final (commanded) fueling would dip nice and rich on changing loads - now - it's almost identical to the fueling table targets. You can feel it in the throttle response.

 

[Td_d]

No problem - I actually posted some log snippets on Romraider as well. Basically what these tables do is prevent a rich dip when load is changing rapidly, and also prevent a rapid leaning out when load is dropping rapidly (it controls fueling both ways). Have a look at the Ol_fueling target and the Final_fueling base below (if you want to see how it differs from stock, take your car out, and at mid 4000 to 5000 RPMs, punch the gas to WOT - have a look at the logs).

Increasing load:

sample        time       rpm        maf     engine_load    timing_total    throttle    mrp          ol_fueling_target    Final_Fueling_Base    iat     Lc1_Afr  
3635          5019       4625.5     2.68    0.786294       20              23.9216     -5.58423     12.8316              9.84415               86      19.0365  
3636          5019.04    4568       2.94    0.903416       30              23.9216     -4.50418     12.9588              12.9733               86      19.0365  
3637          5019.08    4413.5     3.02    1.06989        32              23.9216     -1.97664     13.2263              10.62                 86      13.4064  
3638          5019.12    4197       3.1     1.22454        31              23.9216     -1.01907     12.6466              11.8674               86      13.4064  
3639          5019.16    4210       3.14    1.33468        28              23.9216     0.0943871    12.3239              12.0812               91.4    13.8474  
3640          5019.2     4379.5     3.2     1.3764         24.5            23.9216     0.428423     11.9319              11.7285               91.4    13.8474  
3641          5019.24    4381.75    3.36    1.47609        23              23.9216     1.98726      11.8414              11.14                 91.4    14.9499  
3642          5019.28    4373       3.42    1.56043        25              100         2.6442       11.8153              11.6933               91.4    14.9499  
3643          5019.32    4327.75    3.42    1.64958        25              100         3.05617      11.8263              11.7368               91.4    13.9797  
3644          5019.36    4384       3.48    1.69857        26              100         3.45702      11.7294              11.6684               91.4    13.9797  
3645          5019.4     4439.5     3.5     1.73777        26              100         3.76879      11.6791              11.6385               91.4    12.5685  
3646          5019.44    4426       3.52    1.78193        25.5            100         4.23644      11.6767              11.6587               91.4    12.5685  
3647          5019.48    4403.75    3.58    1.8321         25              100         4.64841      11.6852              11.6852               91.4    11.9952  
3648          5019.52    4392.25    3.62    1.86728        24.5            100         5.07153      11.691               11.691                91.4    11.9952  
3649          5019.56    4427       3.66    1.91812        24              100         5.42783      11.6722              11.6722               91.4    11.5248  
3650          5019.6     4457.25    3.7     1.97552        23.5            100         5.97342      11.6558              11.6558               91.4    11.5248  
3651          5019.64    4449       3.72    2.02243        24              100         6.42994      11.6604              11.6604               91.4    11.3925  
3652          5019.68    4465.75    3.76    2.08775        23.5            100         6.95326      11.6513              11.6513               91.4    11.3925  
3653          5019.72    4487.25    3.78    2.14661        22.5            100         7.43205      11.6397              11.6397               91.4    11.2308  
3654          5019.76    4520       3.82    2.17663        22              100         7.95537      11.6219              11.6219               91.4    11.2308  
3655          5019.8     4519       3.88    2.23854        21              100         8.56777      11.6226              11.6226               91.4    11.2455  
3656          5019.84    4540.75    3.84    2.30475        20              100         9.07996      11.6108              11.6108               91.4    11.2455  
3657          5019.88    4551.25    3.96    2.35708        19              100         9.7369       11.6052              11.6052               91.4    10.9368  
3658          5019.92    4644.75    3.98    2.42074        18              100         10.3716      11.5552              11.5552               91.4    10.9368  
3659          5019.96    4642       4.02    2.48645        16.5            100         10.9951      11.5567              11.5567               91.4    10.9368  
3660          5020       4656.25    4.06    2.54442        15.5            100         11.6632      11.5491              11.5491               91.4    10.9368  
3661          5020.04    4690.75    4.08    2.61247        15              100         12.3535      11.5308              11.5308               91.4    10.9809  
3662          5020.08    4733       4.16    2.67801        15              100         12.8991      11.5084              11.5084               91.4    10.9809  
3663          5020.12    4714       4.18    2.7541         14.5            100         13.5783      11.5185              11.5185               91.4    10.9368

Declining load:

 sample    time       Engine_speed    maf     engine_load    timing_total    throttle    mrp         cl_ol    ol_fueling_target    Final_Fueling_Base    iat     Lc1_Afr  
 3691      5021.24    5508            4.7     3.85588        13.5            100         22.987      10       11.4732              11.4732               84.2    11.3778  
 3692      5021.28    5476            4.72    3.84492        13.5            100         22.8757     10       11.4732              11.4732               84.2    11.3043  
 3693      5021.32    5510            4.72    3.902          13.5            100         23.0649     10       11.4732              11.4732               84.2    11.3043  
 3694      5021.36    5556.75         4.72    3.95018        13.5            100         23.0538     10       11.4732              11.4732               84.2    11.466   
 3695      5021.4     5554.5          4.76    3.94024        13.5            100         22.9536     10       11.4732              11.4732               80.6    11.466   
 3696      5021.44    5553.75         4.74    4.01185        13              100         23.0315     10       11.4732              11.4732               80.6    11.3925  
 3697      5021.48    5614.75         4.74    4.00046        13              100         23.0093     10       11.4732              11.4732               80.6    11.3925  
 3698      5021.52    5682.75         4.74    3.97962        13.5            100         23.0649     10       11.4732              11.4732               80.6    11.466   
 3699      5021.56    5685.5          4.74    3.99107        13.5            100         23.2765     10       11.4732              11.4732               80.6    11.466   
 3700      5021.6     5685            4.74    4.02637        13.5            100         23.321      10       11.4732              11.4732               80.6    11.4513  
 3701      5021.64    5732.5          4.76    4.03501        13.5            100         23.1874     10       11.4732              11.4732               80.6    11.4513  
 3702      5021.68    5774.25         4.76    4.03442        13.5            100         23.2208     10       11.4732              11.4732               80.6    11.5248  
 3703      5021.72    5839.25         4.76    4.04322        13.5            100         23.0984     10       11.4732              11.4732               80.6    11.5248  
 3704      5021.76    5851            4.76    4.0274         13.5            100         22.653      10       11.4732              11.474                80.6    11.4072  
 3705      5021.8     5767.5          4.68    3.94877        14              41.5686     19.179      10       11.4732              11.4807               80.6    11.4072  
 3706      5021.84    5639.75         4.4     3.43737        0               41.5686     13.879      10       11.4732              11.4902               80.6    11.1573  
 3707      5021.88    5550.25         3.34    2.78412        0               41.5686     5.06039     10       11.4732              11.5057               80.6    11.1573  
 3708      5021.92    5447.75         2.92    1.72377        0               41.5686     -1.9321     10       11.5436              11.6218               80.6    16.611   
 3709      5021.96    5290.5          3.48    1.56909        0               41.5686     -4.02539    10       11.5436              11.638                78.8    16.611   
 3710      5022       5263.5          2.8     1.25556        0               41.5686     -5.46175    10       11.5454              11.652                78.8    44.4822  
 3711      5022.04    5109            3.38    1.1416         0               41.5686     -6.5752     10       11.722               11.835                78.8    44.4822  
 3712      5022.08    5033.5          2.62    1.04205        0               13.3333     -6.76449    10       11.9722              12.0827               78.8    127.758  
 3713      5022.12    5040            3.2     1.10104        0               13.3333     -7.63299    10       11.8548              12.6344               78.8    127.758  
 3714      5022.16    4896            2.48    0.938182       0               13.3333     -7.67752    10       12.336               12.336                78.8    35.1183  
 3715      5022.2     4830.25         2.92    1.01591        0               13.3333     -7.45483    10       12.2607              12.2607               78.8    35.1183  
 3716      5022.24    4811.25         2.72    0.828398       0               13.3333     -7.78887    10       12.4471              13.633                84.2    25.3575  
 3717      5022.28    4734.75         2.5     0.959515       0               13.3333     -7.58845    10       12.5513              12.5513               84.2    25.3575  
 3718      5022.32    4659.75         2.9     0.774103       0               13.3333     -8.00043    10       12.7574              12.7574               84.2    25.3575

 

[Td_d]

These are the 'transient load fuel enrichment' tables, also known as x-tau - seems like most aftermarket Ecu's (including megasquirt) have them too. In a nutshell, they throw fuel in the mix on increasing load, and remove fuel on decreasing loads. These are the tables that effect 'wall wetting' that I mentioned in the elite forum.

Even stock, they are not well calibrated, and once you throw in a bigger turbo, well off. Have a look at the numbers I've posted on a pc (near impossible to see what's going on on a phone). You'll see basically that final fueling tracks the open loop enrichment (ie the fueling map) much much more closely. Very different before, I think much worse with a FMIC by the way. Makes fueling very predictable.

When you get started tuning, we must chat - interesting stuff happening in OS. Two new developments now are the implementation of an ethanol gauge linked to map switching and mixing (ie on the fly), and if we can find a java scripted, live tuning (code is there, front end isn't).

OS is definitely clunkier than COBB's neat solution, but hey, I'm a geek, I love pulling things apart!

I'll send you my timing map soon, just want to test some things out. I'm beginning to think some of the HP loss may be due to too much meth at the top end - I gather you should only drop about 1AFR with meth compared to no meth, I'm dropping much more than that. Want to test throwing more fuel at it, and dialing down the spray a bit.

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

Not exactly sure what you're talking about, and there are some ECU logic parts that you know I that I have no clue of how it meshes. I'm also looking at this on my phone. I'm guessing that you blended the high load cells in the CL tables to match the OL tables so that if for some reason it is still referencing CL (which it will for a little while) then it will respond much quicker. It makes sense if that's the case. In my case, command fuel keeps referencing the alternate fuel tables and I'm not 100% sure why. I think the fact that I can break traction in 3rd from a roll at 3500 rpms has something to do with it... Need to log more stuff, and it's about that time for me to start researching more and more about opensource so that I can transition. I for sure do not want to start out with stock size tables for fueling and timing. I'll shoot you an email Oren and we'll see where we can take this from there. That '08 is not my car, and there is someone else that will be tuning it, so I don't have any feedback for you yet bud. It just hasn't been priority yet for the tuner to get it swapped over. Lots of things going on right now and I have made a move that will afford me plenty of time to learn the extra quirks of the newer opensource including logging CANBUS with an SD card like you do. Romraider has been clumsy from the first time I tried it with ECUFlash being where I've understood the table adjustments much better. Honestly, if I could log with ECUflash or evoscan I'd think about using them.

You can has logging with evoscan. It supports subaru as much as it supports mitsubishi.:tup:

These are the 'transient load fuel enrichment' tables, also known as x-tau - seems like most aftermarket Ecu's (including megasquirt) have them too. In a nutshell, they throw fuel in the mix on increasing load, and remove fuel on decreasing loads. These are the tables that effect 'wall wetting' that I mentioned in the elite forum.

Even stock, they are not well calibrated, and once you throw in a bigger turbo, well off. Have a look at the numbers I've posted on a pc (near impossible to see what's going on on a phone). You'll see basically that final fueling tracks the open loop enrichment (ie the fueling map) much much more closely. Very different before, I think much worse with a FMIC by the way. Makes fueling very predictable.

When you get started tuning, we must chat - interesting stuff happening in OS. Two new developments now are the implementation of an ethanol gauge linked to map switching and mixing (ie on the fly), and if we can find a java scripted, live tuning (code is there, front end isn't).

OS is definitely clunkier than COBB's neat solution, but hey, I'm a geek, I love pulling things apart!

I'll send you my timing map soon, just want to test some things out. I'm beginning to think some of the HP loss may be due to too much meth at the top end - I gather you should only drop about 1AFR with meth compared to no meth, I'm dropping much more than that. Want to test throwing more fuel at it, and dialing down the spray a bit.

This will definitely be a huge contributing factor to your loss of power on meth. I have been using a 1 afr delta for some time and I have found any more than that gives in undesirable results. I have also found that the best mix is 50/50 water to meth

 

[HolyCrapItsFast]

I have evoscan 2.5 something.

In the upper left corner you can select protocols to use. Subaru and can are some selections. The logging choises change according to the protocol selected. I only used it once on a subaru because I like RR logger better so I just use that.